Much clearer, thank you. However, as two men can disagree I still do not agree that it makes my comparison irrelevant. I fail to see why my FI car is simply entertaining. In my experience, non factory supercharged cars have a tendency to be more finicky as they were not designed with this in mind. I will agree it was worth adding to the conversation as some new members may not know this, and mobile posting doesnt add my sig, but I am wondering why a blown fox fits the criteria of smooth operating, fuel efficient and the like and remains simply "unnecessary and entertaining.
I point this out, because you comparison is one sided. Yes, adding a blower to an otherwise stock 5.0L OHV allows one to retain the street manners and economy you would enjoy when stock while also putting out the power requirements necessary to meet, or beat the performance of the 5.0 TiVCT powered Si97.
...but by doing this you lose the entire N/A vs. N/A comparison that this entire debate was based on. My point was that in N/A format, the 5.0L OHV can't compete with the 5.0L in ALL AREAS. Yes, more power can be made, but not without making sacrifices to other aspects.
Also, adding forced induction can be done just as easily to the more efficient 5.0L TiVCT. This engine has been shown to make nearly the same amount of power, with half the effort. So we're back to square one. Now both engines are again on an even keel and the modern OHC again comes out on top.
I chose not to throw blowers into the mix, because quite frankly it further clouds an already complicated (for some) issue.
Also, you again think I grandstand when I am a person of strong opinion. Look in the mirror fella, cause I think I see one when I look at you. I am confused as to why you constantly bitch about the spec of sawdust in my eye while you have a plank in your own
Maybe we're both a little guilty of the grandstanding attitude. But I suspect that comes with the territory when you pit two type A personalities on opposing sides of the issue.
My gripe was that you being familiar with my posting style, need for thoroughness and quite frankly my level of technical prowess would think for a moment I would discount the benefits of using forced induction as an equalizer and were looking for a way to "show me up" so to speak. I like to address one issue at a time and chose not to bring blowers in to the equation because of the reasons stated in the previous paragraph.
...and I somehow think you still were unable to resist the urge to attempt to stick it to me, knowing this.
Alas, if you are so heartless to not see why since I have finished my fox I have no time slips, you sir are the ignorant you claim to not be. My children are my world, not proving anything to you. And please show my where I am talking ****, as I have claimed what others in this thread have about kdubslugga. If you have a blown 5.0 11's should be done with your eyes closed. How is that talking **** again?
My request for time slips was simply my way of returning the jab I received from you. It’s easy to talk the talk, but it's being able to walk the walk that really matters. Since you were so vocal about your ability to handle faster cars with much more money invested into them, while regaining most of the characteristics I outlined previously, I thought it only pertinent you share with us your accomplishments.....knowing full well that the '11 GT that has since become the subject of ridicule in this thread has run 11's and even 10's while retaining the stock short block.
My comment had nothing at all to do with your family life....and more to the point your children, so I can only wonder why you would choose to drag them into this conversation? Was it to retain a sympathy vote from OHC haters and fellow like minded peers in order to make me out as the bad guy perhaps? I can only speculate?
The SC in this case was a leveler, not putting me far out from the power levels. I have NEVER ONCE denied the '11, in fact we actually agree on most of it and I WILL OWN ONE. You calling this person thick indirectly calls me the same. Thanks.
My thickness comment was not directed at all to you, but more to RedFox's suggesting that two vehicles, of even implement would still be on an even keel, or an even match up if one of them were allowed to run forced induction.
How can we compare the merits of one engines modern advancements and superior over all efficiency, to another when unnatural motivation is thrown into the mix to even the playing field because the less powerful OHV isn't able to accomplish it under its own steam? The comparison is quite frankly idiotic, which is what evoked my "thickness" comment.
Further comparing it to import owners who complain of an unfair advantage when their engines are literally
less than half the size of either 5.0L tells me the point has gone even further over his head that I originally though.
This isn't a little engine with a power adder vs. big engine without, match up....its a comparison between the efficiency and power levels of two IDENTICALLY displaced engines, each pitting the merits and capabilities of their own design against one and other.
And a liar, well if the shoe fits maybe you should try it on, someone told me that once cant remember where i heard it though
All but called you a liar
, still less than you've called me in this thread yet i cant issue you an infraction like you issued me when you did the same thing. I have no doubt these arguments would go different if you didnt have your moderator title. Funny how that STILL isnt the same link i posted and you are somehow still trying to use that against me for being "proven wrong", sounds convenient.
Look dude, you've got full control over your post....put whatever link you want to in there. Why would I care?
How am I supposed to know which link belongs there? I'm not the one who originally make the post...you were. If you want to show the world so bad what you were trying to prove, insert links till your heart’s content.
Is it my fault you didn't proofread your post before you make them. Jeeze dude, get over yourself. You're not so important in my life that I would stoop to editing your post to win an argument.
Like I said, I can snap a screen shot of the edit logs and post it up in open forum anytime you wish.
Until then, is that anything else you'd like to blame me for? World you like to know my whereabouts the day the Twin Towers went down? How about my involvement in Hurricane Katrina? Maybe I had something to do with them too?
Haha, this thread is a wreck. Allow me to contribute!
Now I'm just spit balling here, but- I don't think you need to shelve your opinion. Maybe just avoid downplaying Foxes in the dedicated Fox section of the site...? I think the Amish are silly for avoiding technology and doing things the old fashioned way, but you won't see me at one of their farms calling them ignorant.
Again, not downplaying Fox's. I like Fox's. I may again own one someday. I just seem to be getting lambasted as a hater when I chose to make note of their short comings along with their strong points?
I guess I could just ignore them, so not to hurt the feelings of some of our more sensitive members in this particular forum, or they could just quite being so sensitive about it and realize Jesus Christ himself did not drive a Fox body?
For the record though....I didn’t come into this thread downplaying Fox’s. I only stated their shortcomings and TiVCT benefits when I was dragged into arguing the facts by other members of the forum. I would have been happy just leaving it at my original comment way back in post #30
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/8262909-post30.html. Take a look at who started the ball rolling in post #32 after that.
in open forum!