What would you do?

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mike78

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Apr 11, 2005

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Mar 8, 2006

#1

• Mar 8, 2006

• #1

I am selling my vw to build up my car. I expect about 1200.00 to come my way. I am not a mechanic, and have not rebuilt an engine. I can swap any external part, including heads. Condition 82K, stock 302, 1978. This is a driver, what would you swap? Manifold suggestions? Carb? Heads? Hedders? All advice welcome, thanx in advance, Mike

 

1

1badII

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Mar 8, 2006

#2

• Mar 8, 2006

• #2

$1200 will get you a good 4 barrel carburetor, dual plane intake, headers, and dual exhaust. I'd go with a 600 carburetor, an Edelbrock Performer intake (Performer RPM if you plan on changing the heads and cam later), Hooker Super Comp headers.

 

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mike78

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Mar 8, 2006

#3

• Mar 8, 2006

• #3

Is there a recommended set of heads off a later engine that I should try to find at the local yard? If so, casting # for them, and where would the #'s be physically located on the head?

 

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

Mod Dude

Dec 6, 2005

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Corn County USA

Mar 8, 2006

#4

• Mar 8, 2006

• #4

i think i would start with heads. they are basically the single biggest expense you can do to upgrade your engine, and since you will have the money to spend, it would be a sound investment for your future rebuild.

 

Blue Thunder

15 Year Member

Mar 20, 2004

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Upstate New York.

Mar 8, 2006

#5

• Mar 8, 2006

• #5

Get some of it from swap meets, like decent alum. heads, edelbrock or weind intake, working holley 650, new camshaft and lifter set matched to the rpm range of whatever heads you find, and headers.

 

T

THE COBRAMAN

pig 'rassler

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Mar 11, 1999

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Mar 9, 2006

#6

• Mar 9, 2006

• #6

I'm going to suggest something that most people would say is ridiculous...

I would pull the engine and freshen it as required. Why? It's pushing 30 years old, and these engines are well known for valve stem seal issues, and generally poor build quality. The original in my '77 was oiling #4 at 42K miles. More recently, when I built my father-in-law's '77 about 3 years ago, we used a low mile '76 Granada 302. It's not there anymore. Wanna guess? You got it, the seals disintegrated and completely plugged the oil pump pickup. It was so bad, we dug chunks of hardened rubber/plastic out of the oil passages in the crank. Never gave us any sign of trouble until the oil light came on.

It really shouldn't cost a ton of money to freshen it up if it's actually in decent shape, but I would have serious reservations about putting additional load on something that could quite possibly be a grenade waiting to happen.

Low miles don't really mean a lot on cars that are over 10 years old, lots of stuff wears out from age as much as mileage.

I'd say heads, headers and cam kit would be the most beneficial, intake swaps don't usually generate a lot of power per dollar, given the breathing limitations of the above OE components.

 

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mike78

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Mar 9, 2006

#7

• Mar 9, 2006

• #7

Could you define or expand on "freshen up" the engine? Rebuild? Rering? I could pull it and drop it off some where but usually that means $$$. If I did, what service should I ask for? And more importantly, I am not a trusting type of person -- how could I tell I was getting what I paid for?

 

Dano78

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Nov 1, 1999

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Vancouver, WA

Mar 10, 2006

#8

• Mar 10, 2006

• #8

THE COBRAMAN said:

I'm going to suggest something that most people would say is ridiculous...

I would pull the engine and freshen it as required. Why? It's pushing 30 years old, and these engines are well known for valve stem seal issues, and generally poor build quality. The original in my '77 was oiling #4 at 42K miles. More recently, when I built my father-in-law's '77 about 3 years ago, we used a low mile '76 Granada 302. It's not there anymore. Wanna guess? You got it, the seals disintegrated and completely plugged the oil pump pickup. It was so bad, we dug chunks of hardened rubber/plastic out of the oil passages in the crank. Never gave us any sign of trouble until the oil light came on.

It really shouldn't cost a ton of money to freshen it up if it's actually in decent shape, but I would have serious reservations about putting additional load on something that could quite possibly be a grenade waiting to happen.

Low miles don't really mean a lot on cars that are over 10 years old, lots of stuff wears out from age as much as mileage.

I'd say heads, headers and cam kit would be the most beneficial, intake swaps don't usually generate a lot of power per dollar, given the breathing limitations of the above OE components.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

Certainly make sure you've gotten rid of the plastic lined timing set and chuck those '77-'78 69cc heads in the scrap pile. Just bolting on a set of earlier '66-'68 289 heads (54-55cc) will net you more power and will work well with the tame stock cam. You may find at a swap meet, or such, a recently rebuilt pair with 351W valves added for a fairly cheap price tag. Add a 4bbl intake, carb and a set of headers with dual exhaust. If you want to spend a few more $$$ grab a pair of AFR 180s and a little larger bumpstick (cam) get get a little more performance gain. you don't want to get too crazy as the remainder of the lower end does have some mileage on it.

As far as a refreshining:
-throw a gasket set at it
-pull heads and inspect cyl bores
-pull valves and de-carbon valves then re-lap into head seats
-check valve guides and replace valve stem seals
-pop the main and rod caps and inspect for excessive wear/damage
-good time to replace the rear main seal
-new all steel timing set
-new oil pump and driverod
-de-carbon piston tops
-new soft/freeze plugs
-re-paint
-grab a beer and enjoy!

 

Cool Wheels

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Jan 26, 2004

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Apr 7, 2006

#9

• Apr 7, 2006

• #9

I don't think I could wait for the end to enjoy that beer. Seems to me to be an intregal part of the process!

Good post!

 

Camshaft78

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Apr 8, 2006

#10

• Apr 8, 2006

• #10

The best factory heads that fit our cars are the E7TEs from Fox cars and F-150s. I started a thread about them and thanks to some of the other members of this board, it's got lots of good info.

 

Blue Thunder

15 Year Member

Mar 20, 2004

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Upstate New York.

Apr 8, 2006

#11

• Apr 8, 2006

• #11

Hey, '69-'74 351W heads with 1.84"i x 1.54"e valves are factory, too.

 

Camshaft78

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Apr 8, 2006

#12

• Apr 8, 2006

• #12

True, but he may have an easier/cheaper time getting the E7TEs.

 

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mike78

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Apr 9, 2006

#13

• Apr 9, 2006

• #13

I really appreciate all of the info, and I hopped on the E7TE thread when I needed more info. The crappy part is the baja bug still hasn't sold. The local yard has several sets of E7TE's and quoted 120.00 for the pair if I pull them. Other than the miles on the donor -- what would you look for when yanking a set?

 

Camshaft78

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Apr 9, 2006

#14

• Apr 9, 2006

• #14

$120 seems alright, my local junkyard wants $100 a pair if I pull them. Does the price you were quoted at include everything (springs, rockers, etc.)?

 

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mike78

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Apr 9, 2006

#15

• Apr 9, 2006

• #15

If I pull 'em, I am going to try to get everything, I am not looking forward to yanking heads out of a van, but any thing for improvement!!!

 

M

mike78

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Apr 13, 2006

#16

• Apr 13, 2006

• #16

Well I finally gave up on a local sale for my bug and slapped it on ebay
item # 4629943680 (I don't know how to link)
it has already met its reserve, and 42 people are watching.......
If the sale goes as planned -- My II will show it, and mabye I'll be brave enough to post some pics of her here. Bring on the ebay snipers -- please.

I swiped the 235/60/15's off the bug for my turbines, I'll be putting them on later---
are there any puristsout there needing stock ghia rims?

 

78CobraII

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Jul 31, 1998

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Birmingham, AL

Apr 13, 2006

#17

• Apr 13, 2006

• #17

I agree with the rebuild. You'll learn soooooo much and it will all be worth it.

Rebuilding it yourself is a bunch of hard work, but won't cost that much (about $600 for parts and machine work not including the cost of new heads).

If you have a good set of sockets and wrenches, about the only other things you'll need are a good torque wrench, a set of feeler gauges, and a set of long handles brushes for cleaning oil galleries.

Ask around for a good machinist. Disassemble the entire engine and hand the bare block, crank, heads, and rods/pistons to the machinist. Clean all of the parts carefully with auto trans fluid and lint-free rags when you get them home. If they will sit more than a day, oil the cylinder and lifter bores and crank and bag them. Clean again right before assembly. Check bearing clearances with Plastigauge during assembly.

If you end up using a machinist that builds high perf engines, you may want to have the rotating assembly balanced and the heads ported.

 

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mike78

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Apr 15, 2006

#18

• Apr 15, 2006

• #18

My bug is up to 1725.00, and it ends on sunday, so I am thinking about a rebuilt crate engine. I can get an 87-91 longblock engine delivered for 950.00. I need info on what else I would need, and don't know if it has the ability to run a mechanical fuel pump. What else would I be able to use from my old 302? I know I would learn alot from my own rebuild, but I have very limited $$, and this almost seems cheaper and better. Thanks again, Mike

 

Dano78

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Apr 23, 2006

#19

• Apr 23, 2006

• #19

Crate engine- as in new? or as in remanufacturered? There are both types.
Crate engines, in my opinion, is just a waste of money. There is nothing wrong with a rebuilt engine if it's done correctly. And in your case, you may only need to just freshen yours up a bit and that'd cost alot less that a "crate" or a total rebuild leaving more money to be spent on other bolt-on speed goodies.

When swapping around engine stuff in a II keep in mind... everything bolted to the front of that original engine is MUSTANG II SPECIFIC! Also including the oil pan and oil pickup assembly. The timing cover isn't specific, but the harmonic balancer, timing tab, pulleys, brackets, waterpump, etc.. are all MII V8 specific. Just keep that in mind if you decite to get another engine.

The mech. fuel pump should work as long as there is the opening in the timing cover for it and that the eccentric is mounted (or mountable) on the cam's timing gear. Then you should be ok.

Also- that '87-91 longblock is an EXTERNAL balance engine wheras the pre-'80 302s are Internal balance... just remember that because you'll have to use the correct harmonic balancer for what you're trying to do.

 

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mike78

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Apr 23, 2006

#20

• Apr 23, 2006

• #20

the crate engine is a reman, but I think I will rebuild. I am going to have to re use alot more than I want, and will add goodies as $$$ allows. Now I just need to decide which is better : E7TE or C80E