sup stang experts. and yes I DID DO A SEARCH PRIOR TO POSTING THIS. thanks. well my specs are in my sig. The cam was put in by the previous owner so i am not sure of what kind it is. Everything thats not listed in my sig is basically stock. i was wondering which afr's would you guys recommend for my 289 thats bored out. Either 165s or 185s? im a newb to this so bare with me. how much hp do you guys estimate right now? and how much hp will i actually gain by doing this head swap? would i need to replace anything else? thanks for all your help. please let me know if you guys need anymore info. thanks.
which AFR's?
- Thread starter 67staaang
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SoCalCruising
Founding Member
Relatively small port sizes are what you need. AFR 165s, Twisted Wedge, small Edelbrocks, AND they have to have enough deck thickness that you can have them shaved enough to get your compression up. Think about swapping in a 302 rotating assembly. No block prep needed - just check piston-to-deck height, which should be okay. Then you don't have to go lower than 54cc on the combustion chamber size. Even 58cc wouldn't be terrible and it will get you further along to beating those pesky '05-'06 stangs.
05s are mid 13 cars... You are gonna need a few things. AFR makes a great head. Stick with the 165s for your engine. Otherwise you will have to notch your pistons. Edelbrock performer series has a 60cc and the Trickflow have a 61cc chamber. World products heads have a 58cc but they are cast and if you want to compete you are going to stay as light as possible. If you go with edelbrock, stick with the RPM series so you can utilize your wider rpm band. You are going to also need at least 3.73 rear gears and still the typical aod doesn't take kindly to abuse.
Kevin
Kevin
1320stang
Founding Member
Man, do you know what pistons you have? You'll likely need flat tops. I don't know that a Performer intake will cut it either, you'll need an RPM at least I'd think, a good single plane would do it too, like a Torker, but is it a daily driver?
With gas prices getting to be what they are, they were in the 80 cent range when I started messing around with this stuff and I hear it's going to be up above $3 later this summer.
Probably need to change the cam out, I've seen a lot of 'hipo' cams that are just old RV cams, a little better than stock. I'd probably put a spyder in there and go with a hydraulic roller and throw some hydraulic rockers on there as well. The less accessories you have will free up some HP, so you might want to go with an electric fan. Lightening the car up as much as you can is advised, so if you have a big subwoofer box, you might ditch that as well. Getting your suspension up to snuff will help as well, Opentracker's roller perches on the front and some Cal-Tracs in the rear will help with some wheel/tire combos that are light weight. Loosing the unspring weight helps.
You should be able to get into the mid to low 13's without too much expense, but a couple of mods and those guys are into the 12's.
With gas prices getting to be what they are, they were in the 80 cent range when I started messing around with this stuff and I hear it's going to be up above $3 later this summer.
Probably need to change the cam out, I've seen a lot of 'hipo' cams that are just old RV cams, a little better than stock. I'd probably put a spyder in there and go with a hydraulic roller and throw some hydraulic rockers on there as well. The less accessories you have will free up some HP, so you might want to go with an electric fan. Lightening the car up as much as you can is advised, so if you have a big subwoofer box, you might ditch that as well. Getting your suspension up to snuff will help as well, Opentracker's roller perches on the front and some Cal-Tracs in the rear will help with some wheel/tire combos that are light weight. Loosing the unspring weight helps.
You should be able to get into the mid to low 13's without too much expense, but a couple of mods and those guys are into the 12's.
alright thanks guys. another option for me is just to build either a 302 or 351. but im not understanding the term "stroking" it? i understand boring a block out but not stroking it. do you think a stroked 302 with the right combo could take on an 05 or an 06gt? thanks again for your helpful info.
1320stang
Founding Member
cubic inches will help. The best deal would be to build another engine while you're still able to drive the car as is. You'll be able to enjoy the car and times when there is no money won't frustrate you. You need to post your location, someone may have some parts for you to start with near you. I have a 302 shortblock in my garage now that just needs complete heads, intake (I have a RPM as well), pushrods and a carb. I believe it had unworked RPM heads on it at one time. It went 13.60's in a '66 coupe with slapper bars and a C4 with a shift kit and bigs/littles with BFG D/R's. The car has fox seats in it and a stereo as well. The carb was a BG Silver Claw which I think is a POS. I'm not sure what cam was in it, but it was built to cruise more than race.
Stroking means that the crank has a longer throw on the rods. A 289 has a 2.87" stroke with a 4" bore and a 8.206" deck height. A 302 has a 3" stroke with a 4" bore and a 8.206" deck height. A 351 has a 3.5" stroke with a 4" bore and a 9.503" deck height. The 289 has 5.155" rods, the 302 has 5.09" rods and the 351 has 5.956" rods.
In essence, a 302 is a stroked 289. The more common stroker kits for a 302 based engine are 331 and 347.
Stroking means that the crank has a longer throw on the rods. A 289 has a 2.87" stroke with a 4" bore and a 8.206" deck height. A 302 has a 3" stroke with a 4" bore and a 8.206" deck height. A 351 has a 3.5" stroke with a 4" bore and a 9.503" deck height. The 289 has 5.155" rods, the 302 has 5.09" rods and the 351 has 5.956" rods.
In essence, a 302 is a stroked 289. The more common stroker kits for a 302 based engine are 331 and 347.
A stroked 302 to 331 or 347 will be good for low 12s, possibly high 11s with traction. A roller 302 shortblock with heads, cam and intake are usually pretty good for high 12s- low 13s(traction is key with these old cars). Stroker motors are a tad more expensive to build up. What they basically do is lengthen the distance the piston travels up and down with a different crank(huge increase in torque). Of course rods, pisons and sometimes modification to the block is necessary to accomodate it. I suggest upgrading to a c4 or stronger manual if you are going for a stroker.
Kevin
Kevin
1320stang
Founding Member
I dunno, there's a company building AOD's to take 1000 hp, but it is relative to price. A C4 built to take it would be cheaper, but then you loose the O/D.
He's going to need far more than heads to keep pace with an 05-06 Stang ( 
ask me how I know ) Like the others have said, you'll need a stroker motor, suspension work, brakes to stop it, new transmission, rear end gone thru with lower gears, etc. You'll end up spendin what an 05-06 costs new, and still have a 30 something year old car.
ask me how I know ) Like the others have said, you'll need a stroker motor, suspension work, brakes to stop it, new transmission, rear end gone thru with lower gears, etc. You'll end up spendin what an 05-06 costs new, and still have a 30 something year old car.
DukeGnarley
Member
yes, but EVERYONE has an 05-06 mustang, the classic will still be more fun to drive, even if it is slower.
haha true true duke. thanks for the info. i think im going to either go with a stroked 302 or a 351. i am really thinking about the 351 though. im not sure if i am ready to start building up an engine so ill be reading alot of posts before i do so. is it really that hard to build a good 351? hm. thanks again for all your guys help.
Everyone ? Funny I had a 6 month wait to get mine after I ordered it.DukeGnarley said:
Let me tell you something about them. Much as I like the older ones, after driving this 06 GT, it runs better than a Boss 302 (high 13's 1st time at the strip with no mods), handles better than a Boss, gets 23+ mpg, plus has all the amenities of the new cars. Hard to want to get back in a 30 year old vehicle after driving it.
And I still don't see that many on the road around here. So you cannot say everyone's got one.
SoCalCruising
Founding Member
Since you are putting it into a '67, you will have few problems with fitment if you build a 351. A VERY good starting place for study is this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...102-8537927-5519312?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
It shows how to build a 450hp 351 on a relatively small budget. They use 10 degree N351 Nascar heads, but you can substitute whatever head you like, maybe AFR 185s
> The book also details the build-up of a 302/347 stroker, so you can see what that entails, too.
Right now, ADPerformance.com has a 393 stroker assembly, all forged, on sale for about $1000. It uses the right parts, would be an excellent buy, and a great foundation for a hot 351 stroker build. You can use a mild cam for excellent driveability and power brakes, and still make 450hp.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/18...102-8537927-5519312?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
It shows how to build a 450hp 351 on a relatively small budget. They use 10 degree N351 Nascar heads, but you can substitute whatever head you like, maybe AFR 185s
> The book also details the build-up of a 302/347 stroker, so you can see what that entails, too. Right now, ADPerformance.com has a 393 stroker assembly, all forged, on sale for about $1000. It uses the right parts, would be an excellent buy, and a great foundation for a hot 351 stroker build. You can use a mild cam for excellent driveability and power brakes, and still make 450hp.
You prolly don't have to go as radical as a stroker but if you are going to build up a motor, a stroker would be the way to go. For a stroked 351 you might think about going with the AFR 205s. 185s are better suited for a stroked 302 or a stock displacement 351 in my opinion. Check out http://www.rnhperformance.net/ He is a engine builder that is a member of the forum and highly recommended in the 5.0 area. His prices are very competitive with the assembly line builders like dss and chp but has the local builder type of care and customer support.
Kevin
Kevin
SoCalCruising
Founding Member
I said "few problems", meaning there would be few, if any. Shelby put 428s in 67s. A 351 will fit with ease.
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