which AFR's?
- Thread starter 67staaang
- Start date
http://www.rnhperformance.net/
Email Rick and he can fashion you an engine to do whatever you want. If you are going to go power adder in the future, get a 331. Otherwise get a 347. There were a few problems with oil consumption of the early strokers. They fixed that with better designed pistons and stuff so don't let that sway you. I would say get a shortblock built at the very least by one engine builder just to make things easy with the machineing.
Kevin
Email Rick and he can fashion you an engine to do whatever you want. If you are going to go power adder in the future, get a 331. Otherwise get a 347. There were a few problems with oil consumption of the early strokers. They fixed that with better designed pistons and stuff so don't let that sway you. I would say get a shortblock built at the very least by one engine builder just to make things easy with the machineing.
Kevin
S-Car-Go
Member
Ineteresting thread. A lot of good options. Is there a budget? This went from a simple head swap to building a stroker. Cha-ching.
67staaang, have you done your exhaust yet? If so, a 351 won't bolt up, if not, there's some exspense there too.
Real rough numbers here but you're looking at $5-6,000. You can always go cheaper and the sky is the limit. Don't forget you've got to get all the support stuff too. Carb, intake, valve covers, fuel pump, etc. That ebock carb and performer intake ain't gonna do it. I'm in almost the exact same boat as you with my 68 convertible, but I don't care about the 05 stangs. I just want it to be fun and not embarrass myself if a bowtie is in the next lane.
Here's another option if your 289 is in good shape. This is what I'll probably end up doing. For $3-400 more you can get AFR 165 competition model. They flow about the same as the 185's but with the smaller ports of the 165. Bolt these onto your 289 with a custom cam (Ed Curtis, Jay Allen, etc), get your roller rockers, RPM/Stealth intake, a better carb, and good headers + exhaust. This will set you back around $3,000. Later if you want more power (and you will) those heads will support a 331. You can get a shortblock and swap your top end over without taking a big bite out of your wallet.
I can't decide to do this or blow my wad and do the whole thing at once. $$$ Exhaust is next month, so I don't have to decide yet
67staaang, have you done your exhaust yet? If so, a 351 won't bolt up, if not, there's some exspense there too.
Real rough numbers here but you're looking at $5-6,000. You can always go cheaper and the sky is the limit. Don't forget you've got to get all the support stuff too. Carb, intake, valve covers, fuel pump, etc. That ebock carb and performer intake ain't gonna do it. I'm in almost the exact same boat as you with my 68 convertible, but I don't care about the 05 stangs. I just want it to be fun and not embarrass myself if a bowtie is in the next lane.
Here's another option if your 289 is in good shape. This is what I'll probably end up doing. For $3-400 more you can get AFR 165 competition model. They flow about the same as the 185's but with the smaller ports of the 165. Bolt these onto your 289 with a custom cam (Ed Curtis, Jay Allen, etc), get your roller rockers, RPM/Stealth intake, a better carb, and good headers + exhaust. This will set you back around $3,000. Later if you want more power (and you will) those heads will support a 331. You can get a shortblock and swap your top end over without taking a big bite out of your wallet.
I can't decide to do this or blow my wad and do the whole thing at once. $$$ Exhaust is next month, so I don't have to decide yet
thnx for all the info guys. Scargo you pulled up an option that got me thinking now. my 289 is in really good shape. actually, what im thinking about doing is get some afr 165s comp model and continue doing my efi conversion. then get a custom cam, and roller rockers. Do you think all that will work? i do have headers and exhaust done already. oh yeah and if i get those comp afr 165s do i need to get the ported? thanks again.
I like S-Car-Go's idea as well. Get a good set of AFR's and do a build up around those kick ass heads if you do not want to do a stroker now. Be sure to get the components that would be optimum for a 331 IF that is what you have in mind for the future.
Most of the time "The Future" is a lot closer than you think when it comes to modifications and you end up kicking yourself for not doing it the way you wanted to in the first place.
That being said, last year I used my early model 302 block with low compression dished pistons and threw some 61cc Twisted Wedge heads/small Comp. cam/ RPM intake/ Hooker headers and measly 3.55 gears on it and went consistent 13.2's. I was quicker than every 05 Stang at the strip the few times I went and didn't have much $ into it.
Since then I got the 347 I had "planned" on using "later on." Now I am enjoying the traction problems I am having while running easy 12's!
Most of the time "The Future" is a lot closer than you think when it comes to modifications and you end up kicking yourself for not doing it the way you wanted to in the first place.
That being said, last year I used my early model 302 block with low compression dished pistons and threw some 61cc Twisted Wedge heads/small Comp. cam/ RPM intake/ Hooker headers and measly 3.55 gears on it and went consistent 13.2's. I was quicker than every 05 Stang at the strip the few times I went and didn't have much $ into it.
Since then I got the 347 I had "planned" on using "later on." Now I am enjoying the traction problems I am having while running easy 12's!
I wouldn't bother with EFI honestly. There is a lot more involved cost than you would imageine. Between the fuel pump, intakes, mass air, throttlebodies, injectors, computer and what not... I could have bought several carb and intake combos. As for gas mileage... its not worth the expense.
Kevin
Kevin
S-Car-Go
Member
I'm with sicarius428 on that. EFI? Whoa curve-ball. Don't mess with the top end, then convert to EFI, then put a stroker bottom end in it, then upgrade your EFI setup for the stroker... If you must have fuel injection (and I wouldn't bother either) finish the motor before tackling that project. Throttle body, mass air meter, fuel injectors, intake manifold, etc would have to be swapped out from a FI 289 to better flowing units for a FI 331/347. Big waste of money, very little payback over a good carb set up. Spend your money on a dyno tune instead.
Those comp 165's are ported from the factory. Any more and you have a 185's. The short story is that you want the most amount of air through the smallest port possible. You can get more air though a big port 185-225 but the big port kills your low end performance. Small motor needs a small port.
Those comp 165's are ported from the factory. Any more and you have a 185's. The short story is that you want the most amount of air through the smallest port possible. You can get more air though a big port 185-225 but the big port kills your low end performance. Small motor needs a small port.
I hate to be the guy that makes things difficult, but I read a build up article on a 302 with 165 and 185's. The engine had a carb and intake but was otherwise stock.
The 185's barely outperformed the 165's (10 hp) because of the stock cam. Here's the kicker. Both heads performed equaly well at the bottom end. The 185's didn't suffer at all at the bottom.
The final conclusion from the build up was that they thought there was absolutely no reason to buy a 165. If you want more than stock you might as well step up to the 185 right off the bat and it will give you room to grow in the future.
The 185's barely outperformed the 165's (10 hp) because of the stock cam. Here's the kicker. Both heads performed equaly well at the bottom end. The 185's didn't suffer at all at the bottom.
The final conclusion from the build up was that they thought there was absolutely no reason to buy a 165. If you want more than stock you might as well step up to the 185 right off the bat and it will give you room to grow in the future.
Just to be even more difficult, Fordmuscle did dome dyno testing between 165's and 165 comps heads. They made 460hp on the comp head.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/05/DynoDuel/
I'm not trying to make your decision harder really.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/05/DynoDuel/
I'm not trying to make your decision harder really.
If the 185's have larger 2.02 intakes, and the 165's have 1.94's, that in itself is the best reason not to buy 185's. You don't have piston to valve issues with 165's. Combustion chamber size is another factor. With 289/302 builds, you're way better off with 58 cc or smaller chambers. If the 185's are 64's then that's another strike against em. Smaller displacement engines work better with smaller heads, in just more than one way. Flow isn't the only factor in building the right engine. Bigger isn't always better.
SoCalCruising
Founding Member
Both 165s and 185s are available in 58 or 64cc chambers. The main differences between the heads are the valve sizes (1.90 vs 2.02) and bowls. The bowls on the 165s are sized/shaped for the smaller valves and reduce the overall runner volume. As I understand from Ed Curtis, the Comp 165s were made to maximize flow rates and still meet certain class rules in drag racing.
Summary: if you have adequate valve reliefs for 185s, get 'em. If not, and you don't want to swap pistons, get the 165s. That's what they're for.
Summary: if you have adequate valve reliefs for 185s, get 'em. If not, and you don't want to swap pistons, get the 165s. That's what they're for.
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