Which Charge Motion Control Plates to Go with?

deadly97snake · Apr 15, 2008

I have tried the search but had no luck.
I have decided to get some of these, but which ones are everyone using? Steeda has two different kinds. (1). Economy (2). Race.
Also I have noticed some of you are using the FRPP ones.

The car is a street car, daily driver, and will see the drag strip twice a year.

PSYKOSTEVO · Apr 15, 2008

I did some research on these as well, and I was disappointed by what I found out.

From what I was hearing, taking those plates out will reduce your low end torque, since the purpose of them is to create more torque down low, and then when they open up they have little restriction on HP. You may gain a little top end, but you sacrifice the lower end which is more assisting. Supposedly even cars with S/Cs don't really need to get rid of them either. Of course this is all from what I was reading and hearing from the local shops.

They also noted that from their dyno experience the headers for these 3V motors only add 0-2hp across the range. I bought a set for the sake of sound, and 75% way through the install found out that the instructions neglected to mention a very serious and time consuming portion of the install process.

I guess my point is "Why do you need these plates deleted in the first place?"

steedman07 · Apr 15, 2008

I have the Steeda billet ones, which come polished..I wouldnt have gotten them unless I wasnt putting in my s/c... Guys have seen gains from these plates with F/I, mostly in the top end

deadly97snake · Apr 15, 2008

PSYKOSTEVO said:
I guess my point is "Why do you need these plates deleted in the first place?"

Doing research using the "search funtion" and other websites, I was under the impression that these were a 5-10 RWHP gain.

Redfire 05 · Apr 15, 2008

PSYKOSTEVO said:
I did some research on these as well, and I was disappointed by what I found out.

From what I was hearing, taking those plates out will reduce your low end torque, since the purpose of them is to create more torque down low, and then when they open up they have little restriction on HP. You may gain a little top end, but you sacrifice the lower end which is more assisting. Supposedly even cars with S/Cs don't really need to get rid of them either. Of course this is all from what I was reading and hearing from the local shops.

Here is an install article along with a dyno test. As you will see you don't loose low end power, you actually gain it. I have seen several dyno tests with these and I don't recall seeing any power decrease in the low end. That is just one of the many internet myths that gets spread around without data to back it up.

Go to this site and click on ChargeMotion Delete CMVC under Engine.

http://www.cherod.com/mustang/HowTos.htm

PSYKOSTEVO said:
They also noted that from their dyno experience the headers for these 3V motors only add 0-2hp across the range. I bought a set for the sake of sound, and 75% way through the install found out that the instructions neglected to mention a very serious and time consuming portion of the install process.

As far as headers go I assume you are talking about shorties? If so yeah, peak horsepower gains are low, but you can pick up a good deal in the low end (17.6lb/ft at 3000rpm is pretty spiffy). Here is an install and dyno article on shorties.

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/mump_0701_ford_mustang_exhaust_headers/dyno_results.html

Always ask to see data!

o0Dan0o · Apr 15, 2008

There is a thread covering this in a certain other forum.

Basically, on a heavily modded N/A car (bolt ons plus ported heads I believe) the deletes netted 9 ft-lbs and 7 hp peak to peak, good gains through the band and no loss down low.

On a more stock car you may loose some torque down low, but probably not much. Though, before getting these I would suggest at the least a CAI tune and O/R-H or X, if not headers as well. The added flow will help match the added flow of the plates.

As for which to go with, I'd suggest the economy plates. I kinda doubt that the uber polished ones are worth much more unless your port match your heads to them.
Dan

deadly97snake · Apr 15, 2008

o0Dan0o said:
Though, before getting these I would suggest at the least a CAI tune and O/R-H or X, if not headers as well. The added flow will help match the added flow of the plates.

I have some money right now so I am doing my axle-back, CAI, CDMPs, Tune, shifter, and underdrive pulleys all installed at the same time, mabey even a one-piece draveshaft too!

Mr_Q · Apr 15, 2008

I had them and with a Vortech. Even with 415rwhp and 400tq there was a torque hole at launch/bottom with the plates out. With them in, was more linear.

Also, and this may just have been my car, when starting the car cold (45f-55f ambient) I would get this funky power fall off/hesitation up to 2k. Car wouldn't go any higher than that without a violent down shift and jerk. Once warmed up, it went away.

It went away completely when the plates were removed. And yes the car was tuned with and with out them on a dyno.

Glenn88lx · Apr 15, 2008

o0Dan0o said:
Basically, on a heavily modded N/A car (bolt ons plus ported heads I believe) the deletes netted 9 ft-lbs and 7 hp peak to peak, good gains through the band and no loss down low.

I would like to point out that there is no significant gain in HP until 4000 RPM according to this chart. Additionally, this dyno chart does not even show what the curve is below 2200 RPM and it only shows the curve at full throttle, not part throttle where the plates operate and provide an advantage. I would also like to add that in city traffic I seldom exceed 2500 RPM and often creep around at 1500-1900 RPM to improve fuel economy, which is about 99% of my driving. I just don't see a significant enough advantage in having the plates in my car and I might even suffer a loss in fuel mileage if I were to install them. YMMV

PSYKOSTEVO · Apr 16, 2008

Yeah, the >2,200 data is in conclusive, but you can see the sharp separation of the two right at 2200 when it starts. Though like I said......it's pretty much inconclusive.

o0Dan0o · Apr 16, 2008

Glenn88lx said:
I would like to point out that there is no significant gain in HP until 4000 RPM according to this chart. Additionally, this dyno chart does not even show what the curve is below 2200 RPM and it only shows the curve at full throttle, not part throttle where the plates operate and provide an advantage. I would also like to add that in city traffic I seldom exceed 2500 RPM and often creep around at 1500-1900 RPM to improve fuel economy, which is about 99% of my driving. I just don't see a significant enough advantage in having the plates in my car and I might even suffer a loss in fuel mileage if I were to install them. YMMV

The depends on how you define significant, but yeah the meat of the gain is above around 3500rpm or so.

FWIW, the guy who tested it said:
"After driving with these delete plates for about a week, I can say there is no loss of torque or driveability anywhere. Furthermore, with a change in the tune to get the correct amount of timing at part throttle, the fuel mileage is now as good with the custom cams and delete plates as it was stock. All in all, I would have to say I CAN recommend the delete plates for these motors, just make sure to retune the PCM accordingly."
Dan

deadly97snake · Apr 16, 2008

ok, so which ones are everyone going with?
I have one person telling me the steeda economy plates, anybody else

steedman07 · Apr 16, 2008

My vote is the polished billet from Steeda...

Hoboattacker · Apr 17, 2008

PSYKOSTEVO said:
I did some research on these as well, and I was disappointed by what I found out.

From what I was hearing, taking those plates out will reduce your low end torque, since the purpose of them is to create more torque down low, and then when they open up they have little restriction on HP. You may gain a little top end, but you sacrifice the lower end which is more assisting. Supposedly even cars with S/Cs don't really need to get rid of them either. Of course this is all from what I was reading and hearing from the local shops.

They also noted that from their dyno experience the headers for these 3V motors only add 0-2hp across the range. I bought a set for the sake of sound, and 75% way through the install found out that the instructions neglected to mention a very serious and time consuming portion of the install process.

I guess my point is "Why do you need these plates deleted in the first place?"

Um yeah...delete plates are good for around 10rwhp and NO loss of low end torque. That USED to be the general consensus, but after they started getting put on and tuned, it was found that you could actually GAIN some low end torque and quite a bit up top if you tuned it right.

Also, Shorty headers don't give much. 5-10hp max. They are better for turbo apps because they flow a LITTLE better and use the same position for the "collector" to bolt up to the turbo piping. Long Tubes, on the other hand, generate 15-30rwhp if tuned right. My next door neighbor put on long tubes after he had a CAI/tune combo making 292/300 and ended up making 319/325 after the long tubes were installed and custom dyno tune done.

I would personally get the economy plates. The billet steeda ones are great if you want to add direct port nitrous later, but if you put a s/c on your car, they get taken off and not used. Now if you decide to go turbo, then you will use them but there still wont be any appreciable gains by using the billet ones over the economy ones.

Which Charge Motion Control Plates to Go with?

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