Who else has had the gears polished

hognutz · Feb 3, 2006

90% of the engineers I work with don't even work on thier own cars. you can overanalyze data. you need to just get down to brass tax. people are getting to caught up in theory and not enough real world benefit here.

There needs to be data to coninue this arguemnt. I think $200 is a waste of money to spend on a $179 gear set. Now if someone can show me an 8hp dyno graph I may rethink it.

I have not seen that yet. There are all kinds of material advantages if you research metallurgy. You just have to wiegh the cost to benifit ratio. I mean you can buy a $1000 crankshaft for a 300hp engine if you want. It will be stronger but you don't need it. This process may improve the gearset but it is more than the gearset so I am going to have to see some impressive data to justify it.

karman · Feb 3, 2006

Uncle Meat said:
Porting a head is pretty self explanitory. The passages are opened up thus allowing more air/fuel to flow. Polishing is an old school term and is actually detrimental to performance! Yes... you'd think polishing the intake track very smooth would ENHANCE the flow and reduce friction, right? WRONG!!

Read this...

Last on the list of factors affecting airflow quality, is port finish. The fact is, a properly finished port is critical to the performance of the engine, as it is the final word on airflow quality. However, when "port finish" and "high performance" are mentioned in the same sentence, most enthusiast immediately believe that the finer the finish, the better the airflow. This is an easy trap to fall into, as utilizing the "finger test method," one would consider a port which feels smooth, must flow "smooth" as well. Unfortunately, this is not necessarily the case at all.
The airflow through a port of an internal combustion engine is what is known by fluid dynamists as "fully developed, turbulent flow." This simply means that the flow is not of a laminar state, and instead consists of molecules of air continually flowing at different velocities all the way from the center of the port, out to the edge of the port. For a perfectly straight pipe (as in our first example), the molecules in the very center are flowing the fastest, with those closer to the edges slowing incrementally as we near it. The molecules directly in contact with the edge of the port are in fact, "stopped" for all practical purposes and this is all due to the viscosity of the air itself. Potential problems due to these effects include flow shearing, as more molecules attempt to go faster near ones which are going slower. This tends to help promote fuel drop out and centrifuging, and poses further resistance to flow motion.
Since we cannot change the viscosity of the air, we must instead work to find a way to keep the flow from adhering to the port walls. One way to do this is to create a rough (textured) surface which in turn will promote what are called "Karman ring vortices." These vortices will "energize" the layer near the surface of the port wall, acting as some head modifiers have stated, "like needle roller bearings." The results of this phenomena act to reduce the adherence of the airflow to the port walls, allowing the bulk of the flow to proceed in a more homogenous, less disrupted fashion.
Just as cross sectional shape, size and consistency can be used to influence the airflow, port texturing and finish can likewise be used to our benefit. This means that, not only should a port be of a courser overall texture, but this texture should also be used to influence (or at least not degrade) the flow pattern in that specific area. If you haven't gotten all of this, don't worry. What it all boils down to is the fact that a finely polished port will not produce optimum results. We use anywhere from 36 to 80 grit on our manifolds and heads with the latter not being for the intake ports!

My distant cousin Von KARMAN was a true genius.

Mike97gt · Feb 3, 2006

funny part is i can see somebody pay 200 bucks for this then have them installed with the original shims and not measuring the pinion depth or backlash

01Steeda · Feb 3, 2006

hognutz said:
90% of the engineers I work with don't even work on thier own cars. you can overanalyze data. you need to just get down to brass tax. people are getting to caught up in theory and not enough real world benefit here.

There needs to be data to coninue this arguemnt. I think $200 is a waste of money to spend on a $179 gear set. Now if someone can show me an 8hp dyno graph I may rethink it.

I have not seen that yet. There are all kinds of material advantages if you research metallurgy. You just have to wiegh the cost to benifit ratio. I mean you can buy a $1000 crankshaft for a 300hp engine if you want. It will be stronger but you don't need it. This process may improve the gearset but it is more than the gearset so I am going to have to see some impressive data to justify it.

that my entore point.. good post.

the98stang · Feb 4, 2006

svttech76 said:
funny part is i can see somebody pay 200 bucks for this then have them installed with the original shims and not measuring the pinion depth or backlash

EXACTLY....then the polish is more worthless than it was in the first place.

Most stang owners would probably save that $200 and spend it towards a SCT tuner or something USEFUL.

KronicRacer · Feb 4, 2006

very interesting. now i see why my post was crap if i say something wrong tell me dude. thats part of the point of the forum so we can learn from each other and not be like the dumb ricer forums. tell me so the correct knowledge so it can grow throughout the forum and personally.

Uncle Meat said:
Porting a head is pretty self explanitory. The passages are opened up thus allowing more air/fuel to flow. Polishing is an old school term and is actually detrimental to performance! Yes... you'd think polishing the intake track very smooth would ENHANCE the flow and reduce friction, right? WRONG!!

Read this...

Last on the list of factors affecting airflow quality, is port finish. The fact is, a properly finished port is critical to the performance of the engine, as it is the final word on airflow quality. However, when "port finish" and "high performance" are mentioned in the same sentence, most enthusiast immediately believe that the finer the finish, the better the airflow. This is an easy trap to fall into, as utilizing the "finger test method," one would consider a port which feels smooth, must flow "smooth" as well. Unfortunately, this is not necessarily the case at all.
The airflow through a port of an internal combustion engine is what is known by fluid dynamists as "fully developed, turbulent flow." This simply means that the flow is not of a laminar state, and instead consists of molecules of air continually flowing at different velocities all the way from the center of the port, out to the edge of the port. For a perfectly straight pipe (as in our first example), the molecules in the very center are flowing the fastest, with those closer to the edges slowing incrementally as we near it. The molecules directly in contact with the edge of the port are in fact, "stopped" for all practical purposes and this is all due to the viscosity of the air itself. Potential problems due to these effects include flow shearing, as more molecules attempt to go faster near ones which are going slower. This tends to help promote fuel drop out and centrifuging, and poses further resistance to flow motion.
Since we cannot change the viscosity of the air, we must instead work to find a way to keep the flow from adhering to the port walls. One way to do this is to create a rough (textured) surface which in turn will promote what are called "Karman ring vortices." These vortices will "energize" the layer near the surface of the port wall, acting as some head modifiers have stated, "like needle roller bearings." The results of this phenomena act to reduce the adherence of the airflow to the port walls, allowing the bulk of the flow to proceed in a more homogenous, less disrupted fashion.
Just as cross sectional shape, size and consistency can be used to influence the airflow, port texturing and finish can likewise be used to our benefit. This means that, not only should a port be of a courser overall texture, but this texture should also be used to influence (or at least not degrade) the flow pattern in that specific area. If you haven't gotten all of this, don't worry. What it all boils down to is the fact that a finely polished port will not produce optimum results. We use anywhere from 36 to 80 grit on our manifolds and heads with the latter not being for the intake ports!

Jackie Chan · Feb 4, 2006

cvgtpony03 said:
Just like I believe everything I read on here from all you experts.

I have a K&N air filter. That is my CAI. I am waiting, saving and preparing for a KenneBell......because after READING magazines AND READING forums I have determined that it is a fact that a KB will make my car haul a$$. If it is installed and tuned properly and the engine is built to support it. I believe facts that are proven to me.

If you can drive

cvgtpony03 said:
I'm home now and reread the article and I still stand behind my original statements. There may come a time when I choose to have some of my parts done with this process. Horsepower or not, strength is just as important. Pushrods, valve springs, valves, pistons, rods, crank, transmission input shaft, rear gears.

well if you get your input shaft polished thats stupid, might want to get a trans that doesn't break before the input shaft snaps(i dont know anyone on here snapping input shafts)

If you gut pushrods polished for your 03, are you going to hangthem on the rearview for decoration??????

Read some more magazines and figure out you have a mod motor and what parts are actually inside.:Zip2:

Jackie Chan · Feb 4, 2006

mogs01gt said:
wow so you're an Engineering student. whooptie ****ing DOO. So am I. For one thing, most Engineering students that I have met know DICK about application and only know what they have read and been taught by dumbass instructors.

I will stick to the real world.

just like i know awesome Ford mechanics that can throw a set gears in under an hour and take care of all of the maintanence on my cars, but if you have a question about aftermarket parts, they are more clueless than cvgtpony03 and his pushrod ohc motor about diagnosing anything thats not in the ford computer

cvgtpony03 · Feb 4, 2006

Hey Jackie Chan

Why don't you do me a favor and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. What did I say rude or sarcastic to you? Is that the only way you know how to relate to other people? Or do you just get so mad when other people don't agree with you that you have to try to find other ways to prove your ALL MIGHTY AND HOLY MUSTANG SUPREMACY? Get a life.

It is a fact that if a Kenne Bell 1.7 supercharger is put on my engine and all supporting hardware is upgraded to compliment it MY CAR WILL BE FASTER. IF I can't drive for crap, the car will still be faster. IF I push the gas peddle, there will be more acceleration. A dumbass would know this. If I then need to practice applying this newfound power to the ground, well guess what, that's exactly what I plan on doing. But regardless, from day one the car will be capable of going much faster.

"Horsepower or not, strength is just as important. Pushrods, valve springs, valves, pistons, rods, crank, transmission input shaft, rear gears."

I was listing parts the article listed that could be done with this process, as well as parts I felt could benefit from it....not just what was in my engine genius. People on this site have 5.0 engines also.

"well if you get your input shaft polished thats stupid, might want to get a trans that doesn't break before the input shaft snaps(i dont know anyone on here snapping input shafts)"

I HAVE read of people bending/twisting/breaking their input shafts. May not have been on this site but thank God I don't rely on this site and people like you solely to gain knowledge about my car. That would be stupid. I do plan on upgrading my transmission. You're so smart and all knowing, you should have known that Jack.

streetstang03 · Feb 4, 2006

cvgtpony03 said:
]
It is a fact that if a Kenne Bell 1.7 supercharger is put on my engine and all supporting hardware is upgraded to compliment it MY CAR WILL BE FASTER. IF I can't drive for crap, the car will still be faster. IF I push the gas peddle, there will be more acceleration. A dumbass would know this. If I then need to practice applying this newfound power to the ground, well guess what, that's exactly what I plan on doing. But regardless, from day one the car will be capable of going much faster.

a car is only as fast as its driver even a dumbass knows that

cvgtpony03 · Feb 4, 2006

Some people

Are just too stupid to argue with.

Once again I state facts that you can't dispute or comprehend so you attack me personally. There is medication for your problems or you could consider therapy. Loser.

Jackie Chan · Feb 4, 2006

cvgtpony said:
I choose to have some of my parts done with this process. Horsepower or not, strength is just as important. Pushrods, valve springs, valves, pistons, rods, crank, transmission input shaft, rear gears.

sure buddy you knew it

cvgtpony03 said:
I was listing parts the article listed that could be done with this process, as well as parts I felt could benefit from it....not just what was in my engine genius. People on this site have 5.0 engines also.

people have 302 modulars, but pushrods dont have anything to do with displacement.

sorry you got all butthurt, but maybe instead of reading half of the garbage in mags, you should check out some peoples actual setups. the fastest guys on these boards(well into the single digits) dont have this bs done...

edit: and just to add to how i responded, i dont know anything compared to a few of my buddies and they dont know anything compared to a few other hardcore racers we all know. but if i brought up some stupid **** like this i would be laughed at forever about it, every race, everytime

007 · Feb 4, 2006

Can have two minutes of my life back now. This thread sucks.

Oh, and paying $200 to polish your gears is one of the funniest things i've heard on this board. I bet they throw in a free spiralmax.

Uncle Meat · Feb 4, 2006

007 said:
I bet they throw in a free spiralmax.

Spiralmax? I was hoping to get a free Tornado with my polish job....

U.M.

bakos24 · Feb 4, 2006

Uncle Meat said:
Spiralmax? I was hoping to get a free Tornado with my polish job....

U.M.

Tornado, now your talking. That itself is worth the $200. Its like your buying a tornado for a great price and they throw in a free polish for gears. sign me up...

thomas91169 · Feb 4, 2006

cvgtpony03 said:
You guys should really invest 40-50 bucks in a couple of magazine subscriptions. You might learn something. Snore, snore??? That is the best you got? I have been burnt so much better than that before. C'mon, give it to me!!!

yeah, like a 10hp gain from ground wires? magazines suck balls bro, the companies pay the mag to have their parts used and jocked in the ads. cmon now.

white-04 said:
Did a little bit of searching, did find this tidbit. 'Mark Campbell of Crane Cams explains how Mikronite treated gear sets gained eight horsepower over non-treated versions.' (Fordmuscle.com)

thats a fluke. gears DO NOT add any horsepower whatsoever. its all about torque modulation and letting you use your powerband differently.

you people want hardening process? its called cryo-treating. take a forged part and cryo-tank it(stick it in -330* temps and it realigns the molecules and makes it stronger, opposite to heat which makes metals weaker) and itll be up to 8x stronger than previously, and will take alot more heat to wear the molecules apart. alot of people are starting to use this process in high boost/hp cars that need to take alot of heat and punishment, be it from high compression, nitrous, boost, etc. cryo treat pistons and rods and crank, then ceramic-coat the piston tops, and you can have a rotating assembly that can withstand alot of high rpm's and alot of pressure and heat.

white-04 · Feb 4, 2006

Thomas,

If you read through their sight more carefully, they compare the mikronite process to the cryo process and theirs seems much better. Yes, it's coming from their site, but I'm not sold that this is BS until there are some dynos.

01Steeda · Feb 4, 2006

thomas91169 said:
yeah, like a 10hp gain from ground wires? magazines suck balls bro, the companies pay the mag to have their parts used and jocked in the ads. cmon now.

thats a fluke. gears DO NOT add any horsepower whatsoever. its all about torque modulation and letting you use your powerband differently.

you people want hardening process? its called cryo-treating. take a forged part and cryo-tank it(stick it in -330* temps and it realigns the molecules and makes it stronger, opposite to heat which makes metals weaker) and itll be up to 8x stronger than previously, and will take alot more heat to wear the molecules apart. alot of people are starting to use this process in high boost/hp cars that need to take alot of heat and punishment, be it from high compression, nitrous, boost, etc. cryo treat pistons and rods and crank, then ceramic-coat the piston tops, and you can have a rotating assembly that can withstand alot of high rpm's and alot of pressure and heat.

that i have heard of. not polishing lol.

white-04 · Feb 4, 2006

Didn't see it the first time, but have dyno graphs linked for a 98 Z28 and a 00 firebird run by a high performance shop. The testing write up says that Ford rears may benefit more from this process due to the position of the pinion, which causes Ford rears to be less efficient than GM and Chrysler rears. Maybe we can find more info on the 05 GT that got 7-9 rwhp gain from JDM engineering.

Mike97gt · Feb 4, 2006

thomas91169 said:
thats a fluke. gears DO NOT add any horsepower whatsoever. its all about torque modulation and letting you use your powerband differently.

the changing of gear ratios by it self will not add horsepower. you are right on that. but you are totally forgetting about how polishing the gears can cut down on power loss. 8 HP sounds like a little much for a stock stang but in a big HP car you can see a big difference.

Who else has had the gears polished

New Member

New Member

it doe snot

New Member

Active Member

Member

I didn't read this.

I didn't read this.

New Member

unModerator

New Member

I didn't read this.

Banned

I find there is nothing better than a tasty wiener

I'd donkey punch my sister.

New Member

New Member

New Member

it doe snot

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency