Who here is going to buy the new camaro?

shooterm1 · Dec 16, 2008

nite said:
you're either kidding, or you're not a true muscle car enthusiast...

No, I'm a FORD enthusiast ....... and fwiw, I was only half kidding!

GM is coughing blood. It deserves no consideration as a viable domestic car maker.

So dont be surprised if their lil' commie car has a very short life span.

and the sooner its dead and buried the better for Ford and for the Mustang [period].

red05bullitgt · Dec 19, 2008

shooterm1 said:
No, I'm a FORD enthusiast ....... and fwiw, I was only half kidding!

GM is coughing blood. It deserves no consideration as a viable domestic car maker.

So dont be surprised if their lil' commie car has a very short life span.

and the sooner its dead and buried the better for Ford and for the Mustang [period].

FYI, if either GM or Chrysler goes under. It's not better for Ford, but worse. As a matter of fact, if either one of the domestic 3 go under. The other remaining 2, will also go under as well.

I'll give you 3 reasons as to why.

Reason # 1

The loss of thousands of jobs will cause the current economic meltdown to get even worse.

Reason # 2

Employees of Automotive supply companies, will also lose they're jobs as demand for parts significantly decline as well.

Reason # 3

Consumers will simply NOT have the confidence in purchasing from American Automakers, once one of them goes either bankrupt, or completely under. Out of fear that the remaining other 2, may also go under as well.

Therefore you have 3 significant reasons, for not wanting any of the domestic big 3 to go under !

shooterm1 · Dec 19, 2008

red05bullitgt said:
FYI, if either GM or Chrysler goes under. It's not better for Ford, but worse. As a matter of fact, if either one of the domestic 3 go under. The other remaining 2, will also go under as well.

that's debatable but its completely ancillary to my statement that THE CAMARO's death (aka, the Comrade's Car) is advantageous to Ford generally and the Mustang specifically ...

here's to a short and troubled life for the people's car!

View attachment 283899

GusinCA · Dec 19, 2008

On paper the Camaro and Challenger are better than the Mustang, IRS, better handling maybe, more power.

But that has been true before, and they died, while the Mustang survived.

I would consider the Camaro a few years after initial production (I don't like buying first year models) but who knows if they will still be around by then...

red05bullitgt · Dec 20, 2008

shooterm1 said:
that's debatable but its completely ancillary to my statement that THE CAMARO's death (aka, the Comrade's Car) is advantageous to Ford generally and the Mustang specifically ...

here's to a short and troubled life for the people's car!

View attachment 283687

Debatable ??? So I suppose in your opinion, it was also debatable when Ford CEO Alan Mulally testified before congress, that if any of the big 3 were to go under. It would also be a huge disaster for the entire auto industry, including Ford.

Perhaps to you, this is debatable, however according to Alan Mulally. His position on the auto industry was made quite clear and direct.

Where unlike yourself, you haven't provided a single fact to back up your outrageous claim, as to how the demise of GM or Chrysler could possibly benefit Ford and the Mustang

bigcat · Dec 20, 2008

lol rocky. you are into this one, eh? i doubt shooter will enter into this with you.

red05bullitgt · Dec 20, 2008

bigcat said:
lol rocky. you are into this one, eh? i doubt shooter will enter into this with you.

Well if you feel that I'm wrong about this Jeremiah, just say the word, and I'll drop it right now.
For I'm not trying to start up a thread war or anything, but I just don't understand how Shooter can realistically claim that if any of the big 3 happen to go under. How this could possibly benefit Ford and the Mustang.

In other words, am I missing something here or what

shooterm1 · Dec 20, 2008

Once again you've exaggerated my position by confusing the ultimate death of General Motors and Chrysler (which btw, I am totally ambivalent about)

and my fervent wish for the early death of the Comrade Car.

While I may desire the end of GM on a gut level, its doubtful that something that draconian will occur in our lifetime.

as for Alan Mulally and his perfect future-tense prognostications: I didn't know that we had a modern day prophet in Dearborn.

Kudos to the Ford Family for landing such a talented and farsighted CEO.

And lastly - yes, - once again - Ford and the Mustang will benefit from the eventual end of the thrice resurrected Camaro ...

red05bullitgt · Dec 20, 2008

shooterm1 said:
Once again you've exaggerated my position by confusing the ultimate death of General Motors and Chrysler (which btw, I am totally ambivalent about)

and my fervent wish for the early death of the Comrade Car.

While I may desire the end on GM on a gut level, its doubtful that something that draconian will occur in our lifetime.

as for Alan Mulally and his perfect future-tense prognostications: I didn't know that we had a modern day prophet in Dearborn.

Kudos to the Ford Family for landing such a talented and farsighted CEO.

And lastly - yes, - once again - Ford and the Mustang will benefit from the eventual end of the thrice resurrected Camaro ...

so let it be written.
so let it be done!

And once again, I totally disagree and here's why. When Ford had no competition in the pony car segment from 2002- 2008. Ford dealers became greedy and used this as their opportunity for marking up Shelby GT500 models, by 15-20k above MSRP.

Being as they knew full well that customers had no competition to select from, they once again used this to their advantage and in the process, got away with bloody murder. But that all began to change once Dodge brought the Challenger back from the dead earlier this year, and as a direct result. Shelby GT500 models eventually became available at MSRP.

Although I personally cannot stand the 2010 Camaro SS, the bottom line is this. Competition is good for the auto industry, and keeps everyone in check by preventing dealers from resorting to such greedy outpricing tactics.

As for Alan Mulally is concerned, I wasn't referring to him as some modern day prophet in Dearborn. However if he weren't such a talented and farsighted CEO, as you had mentioned. Ford would've been in far worse shape than both GM and Chrysler.

That being said, I'll ask you once again. Just how does the demise of the 2010 Camaro, benefit Ford and the Mustang ?

shooterm1 · Dec 21, 2008

red05bullitgt said:
And once again I'll ask. just how does the demise of the 2010 Camaro, benefit Ford and the Mustang ?

between 2002 and today Ford's Mustang has had 100% of the Pony car market all to itself .... and 100% of any car market is better than 99%, 98%, 97% or less.

Quite simply, having a new Camaro in the showroom down the street dilutes the Mustang's market share. And obviously I'm against anything that shares sales with GM ...

You'll note also that I'm including the V6 as a vital part of Ford's commitment to the Mustang mark, because unit volume is what's going to keep the Mustang alive long term. Not who sells the fastest production V8's.

Also, I reject the idea that competition (in this case) is a healthy thing for any aspect of the Mustang Mystique / save perhaps at the NRHA Drag races - which btw, does next to nothing for sales of new production cars.

so I'll give you the last word / I'm tiring of going over the same ground

red05bullitgt · Dec 21, 2008

shooterm1 said:
between 2002 and today Ford's Mustang has had 100% of the Pony car market all to itself .... and 100% of any car market is better than 99%, 98%, 97% or less.

Which once again, is exactly the reason why Ford dealerships have used this to their advantage in order to justify adding their greedy 15-20k markups on Shelby GT500 models. But now that there's competition once again, these boneheads are no longer able to take advantage of their customers, because they now realize the competition offers them an alternative.

Therefore if Ford doesn't want to lose it's customers over to the competition, they now have no other choice but to offer their customers the best quality products, at an affordable price.

And in case you've forgotten, that's what true commitment is really all about

shooterm1 said:
Quite simply, having a new Camaro in the showroom down the street dilutes the Mustang's market share. And obviously I'm against anything that shares sales with GM ...

And why is that, is it perhaps your concerned that having a new Camaro in the showroom may hurt, or take a significant bite out of Mustang sales. lol.

Well once again, if Ford doesn't want this to happen. They'll need to convince their customers, they can offer a better overall quality product, at a reasonable price as part of their commitment.

shooterm1 said:
You'll note also that I'm including the V6 as a vital part of Ford's commitment to the Mustang mark, because unit volume is what's going to keep the Mustang alive long term. Not who sells the fastest production V8's.

Yes, I'm fully aware of the fact that V6 sales are what keep the Mustang alive, for Ford sells more V6 models, by nearly a 3-1 margin over GT sales. Which is exactly why GM, is following in Ford's footsteps with it's V6 version of the Camaro.

shooterm1 said:
Also, I reject the idea that competition (in this case) is a healthy thing for any aspect of the Mustang Mystique / save perhaps at the NRHA Drag races - which btw, does next to nothing for sales of new production cars.

Apparently, you haven't read a single word concerning my views on competition as being healthy for the auto industry. As my interpretation benefits the customer, which in turn has a direct impact upon new car sales, and not some NRHA sponsored drag race.

shooterm1 said:
so I'll give you the last word / I'm tiring of going over the same ground

In which you still have not provided a straight answer to my question, concerning how the demise of the upcoming 2010 Camaro would benefit Ford and the Mustang.

Next I suppose, you'll claim that the demise of the Challenger will also benefit Ford and the Mustang, huh

stanmckinney · Dec 21, 2008

A little competition is almost always a good thing. Keeps quality up and prices as low as possible. Might even see more horse power AND better gas mileage.

shooterm1 · Dec 21, 2008

stanmckinney said:
A little competition is almost always a good thing. Keeps quality up and prices as low as possible

and thus we see Ford RAISING its prices on the GT model for 2010 to meet the new competition's ...

yeah

red05bullitgt · Dec 21, 2008

Although Ford has gradually increased the price of the Mustang, since the 2007 model year. The base 2010 GT, is still far less expensive over the Camaro SS.

With that said, Mustang continues to remain as your best overall, bang for the buck value. Just as it always has

stang8urimport · Dec 21, 2008

New Camaro is ugly. I'd love a new Challanger, but the only Chrysler product I'd buy would be an SRT-Something. I can't convience my wife to sell the Mustang for an SRT-8 Charger.

red05bullitgt · Dec 21, 2008

I totally agree, as the new Camaro is definitely ugly. IMO it looks more like a hot wheels/cartoon caricature of the 67-69 models, not to mention that it's also a pig at 3860 lbs.

Although I really like the new Challenger, It's just way too bulky and huge for my liking, especially at 4140 lbs. Yikes !!!

stanmckinney · Dec 22, 2008

Hopefully with competition we will not see dealer markups on new models or limited edition models. I would own a Shelby except for the fact my dealer wanted $10,000 over sticker. He didn't get the second one he could have because of problems selling the first at a premium price.
That's the kind of thinking that bankrupts companies.
Being the only pony car in town has allowed dealers to get away with some of this stuff. That's why I welcome back the Camaro though I would never own one.

scupking · Dec 22, 2008

I don't think the camaro looks all that bad, I still would not buy one. Now the Challenger is one awesome looking car with a great motor but the only problem is the weight, I still would like to get a used R/T someday.

red05bullitgt · Dec 22, 2008

stanmckinney said:
Hopefully with competition we will not see dealer markups on new models or limited edition models. I would own a Shelby except for the fact my dealer wanted $10,000 over sticker. He didn't get the second one he could have because of problems selling the first at a premium price.
That's the kind of thinking that bankrupts companies.
Being the only pony car in town has allowed dealers to get away with some of this stuff. That's why I welcome back the Camaro though I would never own one.

That's exactly what I've been pointing out, since this thread began

Who here is going to buy the new camaro?

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