Who makes 94-95 351W swap headers (long tube?)

fords2fast4u · Jun 20, 2005

Who makes 94-95 351W swap long-tube headers. I know that BBK made a set back in the mid 90's and i saw them for sale for years in mags, but now that i need them, i can't find them anywhere. all of the long tubes are for fox's... WTF?

i'm buying a 393 and do not want showties, what can i do?

if anyone knows where i can find them, please let me know... thanks.

Curtis

311green94 · Jun 21, 2005

I have been investing in parts for this swap for some time and now and have yet to run into a company that stocks production style headers (bolt-up aftermarket). If you are looking at long tubes, you might have to go with some custom made Kooks, unless someone on here can chime in and direct you somewhere else. I ended up getting some shorties, swap specific.

yellow1995Cobra · Jun 21, 2005

Kooks is the way to go, they are 650 uncoated. Best headers out there no doubt

bjl95mustang · Jun 21, 2005

Mac fox swap lt's are suppose to fit decent. I know a couple of guys who used them in a 94-95.I got some and I will know for sure in the end of july if they work 100% or not.

yellow1995Cobra · Jun 21, 2005

bjl95mustang said:
Mac fox swap lt's are suppose to fit decent. I know a couple of guys who used them in a 94-95.I got some and I will know for sure in the end of july if they work 100% or not.

But why use a set of headers that are too small for the application? No sense in spending all the money on the motor then cheap out on some 1-3/4 headers, when you should have 1-7/8.

moneypit94 · Jun 21, 2005

Jesse I agree and disagree with you. your talking an eighth of an inch difference between the two. Im sure it will gain you a few more horses.

My new buildup im going with 3/4 because for the price i can get the headers and the the coating for under 650.

Don't quote me on this but i have been told that the main difference between the fox headers and the snl95's is the place for the egr tube. Well i don't want that on mine anyway.

yellow1995Cobra · Jun 21, 2005

moneypit94 said:
Jesse I agree and disagree with you. your talking an eighth of an inch difference between the two. Im sure it will gain you a few more horses.

My new buildup im going with 3/4 because for the price i can get the headers and the the coating for under 650.

Don't quote me on this but i have been told that the main difference between the fox headers and the snl95's is the place for the egr tube. Well i don't want that on mine anyway.

And what happens when you have some real heads on that sucker that require a 1-7/8 header just to cover the port?

Cheaping out on an expensive engine and using 1-3/4 isnt something i would do. You will always be wondering how much power your leaving on the table, and i gurantee its a sizable amount when you making good power. Plus you said you want 800 Hp or something, your deff gonna want a HUGE exhaust, after the headers all 3 inch.

nmcgrawj · Jun 21, 2005

Kooks was too expensive for me. Give George Klass a call at Accufab and he will set you up. I paid $499 for custom 351w headers for my 95. They come painted but it will most likely burn off, i plan on using some POR-15 paint for now until i can get some more cash to get them coated.

yellow1995Cobra said:
And what happens when you have some real heads on that sucker that require a 1-7/8 header just to cover the port?

Cheaping out on an expensive engine and using 1-3/4 isnt something i would do. You will always be wondering how much power your leaving on the table, and i gurantee its a sizable amount when you making good power. Plus you said you want 800 Hp or something, your deff gonna want a HUGE exhaust, after the headers all 3 inch.

I talked to George Klass about this and he said to think about it like an hour glass.....the only part that matters is the middle section. The size of the bottom of the hour glass wont affect the sand as much. So its no point in getting primaries that are bigger than the valve on your head.

GTJake · Jun 21, 2005

Nate- I thought you were doing some wickid 302 build up. What happened?

Jake

moneypit94 · Jun 21, 2005

Yeah thats also what i was going to point out. The heads im going to be running will except STOCK exhaust.
Im going a little experimental sence i haven't read any reviews on the Jegs/Kasse heads. But they are 247cc intake runners i believe, and with 2.100/ 1.600 valves they should flow. Plus less shrouding of the cylinder walls. I liked the idea of the canted head.

I don't think 1/8 inch will hurt me that much. I think i have enough blower to get back anything i might lose over an 1/8 inch.

yellow1995Cobra · Jun 21, 2005

nmcgrawj said:
Kooks was too expensive for me. Give George Klass a call at Accufab and he will set you up. I paid $499 for custom 351w headers for my 95. They come painted but it will most likely burn off, i plan on using some POR-15 paint for now until i can get some more cash to get them coated.

I talked to George Klass about this and he said to think about it like an hour glass.....the only part that matters is the middle section. The size of the bottom of the hour glass wont affect the sand as much. So its no point in getting primaries that are bigger than the valve on your head.

So lets say the valve is the smallest thing on the exhaust side. Its like a funnel then, starts small, gets bigger(primarys) then stays at that one point till the tips. Lets say you grab a funnel from the garage and blow air through it, then take a large straw of some sort, the same size as the funnel begining, which one moves more air?

So basically what your telling me is that on my old 418, i should have had only 1-5/8 longtubes? Since the exhaust valves were only 1.60's. Thats pretty much what im getting from what you said. Id love to do that, just to see how much power I LOST, it would be insane. I guess the 1-7/8 headers, and 1-3/4 headers are pointless then right? Just a gimmick?

mstangfrk95GTS! · Jun 22, 2005

i was wondering abou this myself, cause i can pick up a 93 lightning motor complete for 500 and it only has 89k miles

S351R"Animal" · Jun 22, 2005

When you go with more cubic inches and have a restrictiv exhaust you tend to build alot of torque and less HP. If you are running a blower it makes it even worse. With the smaller primaries and a large head you kill the whole reason for increasing cubic inches. If you are just swapping in something like a stock lightning motor then the small headers are fine. If you go with something with a good set of heads, cam, and a power adder you need more exhaust. You don't want to much torque down low for obvious reasons. For the money go with a set of kooks or the ones from George Klass.

moneypit94 · Jun 22, 2005

Now if we were talking stock headers vs 1-7/8 yeah i would say its completely worth it. But we are talking 1-3/4 (1-6/8) vs 1-7/8. We are talking maybe 10-15 horsepower NA at the absolute most, i would guess right around 4-5 hp though. Now if we went up to 2" or plus i could see spending the extra money.

Right now on my supercharged 331 with little ol 1-5/8 im making pretty damn good horsepower. And i will bet dollars to donuts that by jumping up im not going to see anything more then maybe 10 horsepower. Plus if i was looking for more on the top end i would have went with shorties instead of longtubes anyway.

I would rether put the extra money towards the 3" x-pipe and catback system that i will be putting on. But otherwise this is a street car so 5-10 hp isn't all that much to me as to were if i were in a class every hp counts

Now if anyone wants to chip in the difference i will gladly put kooks on though...

1slow95 · Jun 22, 2005

When I ordered my headers, the guy at Kooks said 1 3/4" headers would support 500+HP just fine.

Back on topic, the Mac 351 swap headers will work on a 94-95, but they are a pain to install and you will need to notch the k-member on the passenger side. My Kooks headers were very easy to install and fit perfectly.

nmcgrawj · Jun 22, 2005

yellow1995Cobra said:
So lets say the valve is the smallest thing on the exhaust side. Its like a funnel then, starts small, gets bigger(primarys) then stays at that one point till the tips. Lets say you grab a funnel from the garage and blow air through it, then take a large straw of some sort, the same size as the funnel begining, which one moves more air?

So basically what your telling me is that on my old 418, i should have had only 1-5/8 longtubes? Since the exhaust valves were only 1.60's. Thats pretty much what im getting from what you said. Id love to do that, just to see how much power I LOST, it would be insane. I guess the 1-7/8 headers, and 1-3/4 headers are pointless then right? Just a gimmick?

Listen, im telling you what the guy who designs the headers at Accufab told me. He deals with headers all day everyday and has tested them time and time again on the dyno so i think he knows a thing or two He also says that h-pipes make more power than x-pipes....so i guess he is crazy about that too.

With my 1.60 valve he told me the best thing to run is the 1 3/4" and that the 1 7/8" stepped would be of no benefit(atleast not for the price).

You sound a big offended or upset, calm down.

And on your little example above with the straw and funnel, im not so sure i agree with you. An engine will be pushing the same force with the same amount of air. The funnel just gives less resistance to blowing so the air probably moves slower than the same air in the straw. Thus, thats why small intakes are used for velocity...to move the air. Do big intakes move more air? Hmmmm maybe if there is more room for more air to be brought in, but most of the time bigger intakes just equal the same air but going slower.

So would exhaust moving faster or slower be better? This is the way i think about it, im not sure what George would think. Im not sure how a funnel would move MORE air than a straw of the same entry size, i think the velocity of the air would be changed.

Again, the last part of my initial thinking of your experiment is just my thoughts for the discussion. I dont know enough stuff about exhaust systems to say "Im right and you are wrong", im just throwing stuff out there to be educated.

And if a funnel is better than a straw, then why do people stick with 2.5" exhaust systems instead of 3"? (ofcourse until they make the power to support it.)

nmcgrawj · Jun 22, 2005

GTJake said:
Nate- I thought you were doing some wickid 302 build up. What happened?

Jake

My Luck. Had it running for a while....working out the bugs. Then BAM! The shortblock went out on me. Still trying to figure out what went first, but....just another excuse to upgrade

If you remember, this was my initial plan last summer...but funds wouldnt allow it. Shoulda did it right the first time around Woulda been MUCH cheaper

The heads had ~$500 of damage, the cam is DONE, etc.

Who makes 94-95 351W swap headers (long tube?)

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