Who wants IRS?

ComfortablyNumb · Apr 17, 2004

My friend picked up a magazine today before we got on the train to come home from the NY Autoshow, and the "note from the editor" was pretty much him complaining about the solid axle on the new Mustang GT. He said the cost difference wouldn't be to much because the Lincoln LS and Jaguar that shares the frame both use IRS, and that there are exsisting IRS components already being produced that could be used. I know the solid axle is easier to work with and is better at the drag strip, but for everyday use and the twisties, what would you rather use and why?

Yellow99Saleen · Apr 17, 2004

Even though this thread has been pondered over one to many times, ill give my emphatic YEA to the IRS.
.
If vettes and 03 cobras can be running high tens with em, there is no reason to assume that ford can't make a new irs even better to withstand the vigors of drag racing. Irs handles better and thats a known fact. Iknow there are many stang/f-body road racing champs out there. But in the real world with bumps and holes in the road Irs is just soo much nicer. Sales wil probably never suffer, hey I might even buy an 05 one day but it would be a done deal right now if that car had IRS soming with the new chassis/engine.

P.S. I love how ford advertises that new "rigid (as they call it) axle, is state of the art" . That in itself is a joke and its basically an exact copy of what f-bods have been using for years now. Dont get me wrong, I love my stangs but fords BS and lies to the public really piss me off.

stang-guy · Apr 17, 2004

i agree with yellow99saleen. IRS is a superior set up on road, and lets be honest, hardcore drag racers make up a small demographic of the people who buy stangs. they are a decent amount of people (not saying they are irrelevant to fords decisions) but i think it would have been wise for ford to have stuck with the IRS that the new platform came with. as for the (poor) road racers, this sucks tons. maybe they could make IRS an option?

PS while IRS isnt as ideal for dragging as a live axle, imho it can be adequate.

Emil · Apr 17, 2004

I agree that IRS should be an option. I personally would rather have more HP than IRS but that's my preference not everyone's.

XxRoadRacerxX · Apr 17, 2004

Actually, I think the steps Ford is taking in the new rear suspension is wonderful. Look at the best handling mustangs on the road... skip over the 03 cobras, Roushes, Saleens, and Steedas (can't even compete) and jump to the Griggs and Maximum Motorsport cars. Both setups are 3-link live axle setups and, when set up correctly, can easily outhandle even Z06s (which for the record, are IRSs). Just give the 3-link a chance... you might be surprised.

scottie1113 · Apr 17, 2004

I want IRS. I won't buy another Mustang without it, and I don't want a Cobra. I don't go to the track; all my driving is on real roads and I would love to have a smoother ride than what I experience now.

If Ford won't offer it as an option, I guess I'll go for an Infiniti G35 even though I'd rather have a Mustang.

And yeah, this topic has been beaten to death but it didn't stop me from mouthing off again.

66Satellite · Apr 17, 2004

scottie1113 said:
I want IRS. I won't buy another Mustang without it, and I don't want a Cobra. I don't go to the track; all my driving is on real roads and I would love to have a smoother ride than what I experience now.

If Ford won't offer it as an option, I guess I'll go for an Infiniti G35 even though I'd rather have a Mustang.

And yeah, this topic has been beaten to death but it didn't stop me from mouthing off again.

Maybe test drive the new car before you decide? I don't get how people get all worked up about this before they've even driven the new car.

scottie1113 · Apr 17, 2004

Maybe. But with all the other choices out there I think I'll wait for Ford to realize what century this is.

I'm a car guy, not a Mustang fanatic, even though I love mine. Ford has to realize how huge their potential market is. I hope they wake up to that in my lifetime.

Rampant · Apr 18, 2004

XxRoadRacerxX said:
Griggs and Maximum Motorsport cars. Both setups are 3-link live axle setups and, when set up correctly, can easily outhandle even Z06s

A) Have you actually seen this, or are you just speculating? I, personally seriously doubt these claims (with equal drivers). Granted, the smoother the track, the less the suspension matters, but who races on glass?
B) That isn't exactly a stock v. stock comparisson. What about when you upgrade the Vette's springs and shocks just like the Mustangs--you still think the 3-link Mustang will win?
C) If the solid axle is good, why is it Ford decided to force a poorly designed IRS system to work on a solid axle chassis in the first place?
D) Have you, in recent memory, heard of any solid axle car beating an IRS car in a road race competition?
E) Not many people will be taking these to the track, so the advantages of IRS on daily driven roads becomes huge.

The simple fact is, IMHO, the $300 in parts that Ford reportedly saves for the IRS would have been a HUGE benefit for the Mustang. It not for the image alone. Sure, keep the solid axle--but as an option. I really hope they offer the IRS in a sub-Cobra level Mustang -- say GT350 with a slight hp increase for, around $1.5k more.

Otherwise, I will also have to consider other options. GTO perhaps? Of course the Mustang will be in the running -- and when it comes out I will see how much difference the IRS makes. Who knows, I may be surprised at how well Ford has pulled off the solid rear axle and it won't be an issue.

shatner saves · Apr 18, 2004

66Satellite said:
Maybe test drive the new car before you decide? I don't get how people get all worked up about this before they've even driven the new car.

+1

I agree that IRS should have been an option. However, as I've said before on other threads, the combined benefits of the new chassis, wheelbase, weight distribution and redesigned front/rear suspensions will yield far more benefits than IRS will. The robust nature of a live axle rear is appealing as well.

I just hope that when they do offer it, you won't have to pony up $35k+ for a cobra to get it.

I'll drive the car before I judge. With any luck, v6 cars should be hitting the rental car fleets in time for spring. I've got my heart set on a GT manual but driving a v6 auto for a few days should give me a good idea what the car is like to live with.

66Satellite · Apr 18, 2004

shatner saves said:
With any luck, v6 cars should be hitting the rental car fleets in time for spring. I've got my heart set on a GT manual but driving a v6 auto for a few days should give me a good idea what the car is like to live with.

I sure hope so. I love flogging those rental Mustangs.

SVTdriver · Apr 18, 2004

Rampant said:
A) Have you actually seen this, or are you just speculating? I, personally seriously doubt these claims (with equal drivers). Granted, the smoother the track, the less the suspension matters, but who races on glass?
B) That isn't exactly a stock v. stock comparisson. What about when you upgrade the Vette's springs and shocks just like the Mustangs--you still think the 3-link Mustang will win?
C) If the solid axle is good, why is it Ford decided to force a poorly designed IRS system to work on a solid axle chassis in the first place?
D) Have you, in recent memory, heard of any solid axle car beating an IRS car in a road race competition?
E) Not many people will be taking these to the track, so the advantages of IRS on daily driven roads becomes huge.

The simple fact is, IMHO, the $300 in parts that Ford reportedly saves for the IRS would have been a HUGE benefit for the Mustang. It not for the image alone. Sure, keep the solid axle--but as an option. I really hope they offer the IRS in a sub-Cobra level Mustang -- say GT350 with a slight hp increase for, around $1.5k more.

Otherwise, I will also have to consider other options. GTO perhaps? Of course the Mustang will be in the running -- and when it comes out I will see how much difference the IRS makes. Who knows, I may be surprised at how well Ford has pulled off the solid rear axle and it won't be an issue.

http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2004/events/seb/gt-results.html
IF you look at the link the saleen SR which happens to be a 3 link suspension just beat several IRS cars. Sure it lost to a few. But it beat a whole lot more. And it did happen recently.

As for people who won't buy it without IRS. I'm asking you. Please don't buy it. They may be in short supply for a while. And I don't want to have to wait. I drive well enough to not need IRS. Even on bumpy roads. If you go the speed limit or even a reasonable amount above the speed limit. Then you don't always need IRS.

SVTdriver · Apr 18, 2004

Rampant said:
A) Have you actually seen this, or are you just speculating? I, personally seriously doubt these claims (with equal drivers). Granted, the smoother the track, the less the suspension matters, but who races on glass?
B) That isn't exactly a stock v. stock comparisson. What about when you upgrade the Vette's springs and shocks just like the Mustangs--you still think the 3-link Mustang will win?
C) If the solid axle is good, why is it Ford decided to force a poorly designed IRS system to work on a solid axle chassis in the first place?
D) Have you, in recent memory, heard of any solid axle car beating an IRS car in a road race competition?
E) Not many people will be taking these to the track, so the advantages of IRS on daily driven roads becomes huge.

The simple fact is, IMHO, the $300 in parts that Ford reportedly saves for the IRS would have been a HUGE benefit for the Mustang. It not for the image alone. Sure, keep the solid axle--but as an option. I really hope they offer the IRS in a sub-Cobra level Mustang -- say GT350 with a slight hp increase for, around $1.5k more.

Otherwise, I will also have to consider other options. GTO perhaps? Of course the Mustang will be in the running -- and when it comes out I will see how much difference the IRS makes. Who knows, I may be surprised at how well Ford has pulled off the solid rear axle and it won't be an issue.

http://www.speedvisionwc.com/2004/events/seb/gt-results.html
IF you look at the link the saleen SR which happens to be a 3 link suspension just beat several IRS cars. Sure it lost to a few. But it beat a whole lot more. And it did happen recently.

As for people who won't buy it without IRS. I'm asking you. Please don't buy it. They may be in short supply for a while. And I don't want to have to wait. I drive well enough to not need IRS. Even on bumpy roads. If you go the speed limit or even a reasonable amount above the speed limit. Then you don't always need IRS.

XxRoadRacerxX · Apr 18, 2004

A) Have you actually seen this, or are you just speculating? I, personally seriously doubt these claims (with equal drivers). Granted, the smoother the track, the less the suspension matters, but who races on glass?

Neither. I've actually Done it. Part of the work we did at the shop, aside from building road race cars, was to take ours to the track and show customers what they can do. And we routinely outhandled not only Z06s, but also Vipers, and Porsche 911s.

B) That isn't exactly a stock v. stock comparisson. What about when you upgrade the Vette's springs and shocks just like the Mustangs--you still think the 3-link Mustang will win?

Yes, I still think the 3-link mustang will win. These weren't stock production cars we ran against.

C) If the solid axle is good, why is it Ford decided to force a poorly designed IRS system to work on a solid axle chassis in the first place?

With the camaro gone. Ford has its sights set on the Corvette. Customers see the corvette has an IRS, and therefore wont even consider a mustang unless it has the same.

D) Have you, in recent memory, heard of any solid axle car beating an IRS car in a road race competition?

Yes. See ANY American Iron race.

E) Not many people will be taking these to the track, so the advantages of IRS on daily driven roads becomes huge.

I will agree that an IRS is smooter on daily driven roads, however a 3-link, when set up correctly, can be equally as agreeable on a daily driven basis.

I'll be happy to answer any more questions you might have.

-Chris

mp67 · Apr 18, 2004

XxRoadRacerxX said:
Neither. I've actually Done it. Part of the work we did at the shop, aside from building road race cars, was to take ours to the track and show customers what they can do. And we routinely outhandled not only Z06s, but also Vipers, and Porsche 911s.

Yes, I still think the 3-link mustang will win. These weren't stock production cars we ran against.

With the camaro gone. Ford has its sights set on the Corvette. Customers see the corvette has an IRS, and therefore wont even consider a mustang unless it has the same.

Yes. See ANY American Iron race.

I will agree that an IRS is smooter on daily driven roads, however a 3-link, when set up correctly, can be equally as agreeable on a daily driven basis.

I'll be happy to answer any more questions you might have.

-Chris

Omegalock · Apr 18, 2004

Personally no I don't because I don't road race and I can make due with a solid axle.
SHould it be an option for those that want it? Yeah. Should they make it standard on the next special edition they put out? Yeah.

Rampant · Apr 18, 2004

SVTdriver said:
IF you look at the link the saleen SR which happens to be a 3 link suspension just beat several IRS cars. Sure it lost to a few. But it beat a whole lot more.

According to Saleen's web site, the SR has a "Saleen Racecraft designed independent rear suspension":
http://www.saleen.com/auto/sr/srcon.html

XxRoadRacerxX -- thank you for your personal experience -- it is great to hear (and, quite frankly the first time I have heard of such experiences).

I still want to drive the new cars and see for myself, but the stigma of a solid rear axle will be a difficult hurdle to overcome in the general publics perception -- especially for the majority, V6 buyer. All I want is an option that is relatively close in price.

SVTdriver · Apr 18, 2004

Rampant said:
According to Saleen's web site, the SR has a "Saleen Racecraft designed independent rear suspension":
http://www.saleen.com/auto/sr/srcon.html

XxRoadRacerxX -- thank you for your personal experience -- it is great to hear (and, quite frankly the first time I have heard of such experiences).

I still want to drive the new cars and see for myself, but the stigma of a solid rear axle will be a difficult hurdle to overcome in the general publics perception -- especially for the majority, V6 buyer. All I want is an option that is relatively close in price.

Yes it is saleen designed because the current stang which the SR is based on. Has a 4 link suspension. And the SR has a 3 link. So saleen had to design a 3 link for the SR. Now the 05 will come with one.
"Rear: Saleen 3 link live axle with sway bar"
http://www.saleen.com/home/home_set.htm?x=1
As I have stated before it should be an option. But if it is so important. Why doesn't everyone that has a problem with it not being IRS. Buy an 04 gt. And swap the cobra IRS into it? It's $1750 which puts it pretty close to the $1500 option. And from everything I've read. It's nearly a direct bolt in.

XxRoadRacerxX · Apr 18, 2004

Yes it is saleen designed because the current stang which the SR is based on. Has a 4 link suspension. And the SR has a 3 link. So saleen had to design a 3 link for the SR. Now the 05 will come with one.

From what I understand the SR has an optional rear end choice. Buyers can either get the 3-link or Racecraft IRS (I"m not sure what's different). But from what I understand, Saleen's SRs that they race are double wishbone fronts and 3-link rears. Not positive though.

BackwardHatClub · Apr 19, 2004

SVTdriver said:
I drive well enough to not nee...dollar car is disconcerting to say the least.

Who wants IRS?

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