Why not a Richmond?

joncash · Dec 20, 2006

Alright, i don't get it. For those of us who may not be happy w/ the shakey prospect of a T-5 behind a healthy/torquey engine, why is the Richmond line nearly ignored?

I considered expense, but compared to a TKO swap and all the associated parts the Richmond trannies don't seem like that much more. I wondered about fabrication, but they offer 5- and 6- speeds that are direct replacements for T-5's as well as toploaders: meaning you theoretically can take care of hardware meant originally to work w/ either one, particularly the T-5 bellhousings/scattershields and cable or hydraulic clutch kits.

They even have a "SuperStreet 5-speed" line out now, keeping in the theme of T-5/toploader replacements. This new line is like a T-5 or Tremec, 4th is 1:1 and 5th is overdrive. (Can't find pricing on them yet, but I'm particularly interested in #7040510http://www.richmondgear.com/06pdfs/RG22.pdf)

So what gives? Why are we so hell-bent on making bulky Tremecs work (with angle problems and trans-tunnel cutting) if the Richmonds supposedly fit the classics' trans tunnel better?

I really don't get it . Someone enlighten me--and I've read over gp001's page a hundred times... so please, no more links.

Shakin66 · Dec 20, 2006

There is a couple of guys on here that are running Richmonds and I'm sure they will chime in but I say go for it. I have a viper spec. T56 and did the floor mods to make certain I was at 3 degrees and now that its in the car it has become my favorite mod Ive done. I have some pics on photobucket that will show its size so please note the bulk of the transmission and do some serious research about fittment of whichever transmission you decide on as you dont want your driveline angle off.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d6/scatpro/

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d6/scatpro/?action=view&current=CIMG2169.jpg

grego37 · Dec 20, 2006

I have the older version Richmond "doug nash" street 5 speed behind a 408 stroker windsor and love it. 500hp/ 500tq no problems. it has a 3.27 first gear and a 1:1 fifth gear

joncash · Dec 20, 2006

Shakin66, do you have any shots of your trans tunnel once you closed it back up?
Researching a better than T-5 option is what prompted me to begin this thread, so I'm aware of the potential pitfall og the T-56/Tremec hassles. Cool car, BTW .

grego37, I've never heard enyone complain about a Richmond, and I used to work at a speed shop...where I heard a lot of complaining . As far as installation what did that entail? I assume the version you have is a toploader replacement. Is that correct?

SoCalCruising · Dec 20, 2006

I think the only drawback has been price. T-5s from junkyard Fox-bodies were so plentiful and cheap that this got popular. 3550s and TKOs are also cheap, or seemingly, so they were the step up. Fitment isn't a problem except on the 65-66 models. I would certainly consider teh Richmond if I had a bigger motor and the traction to break a T-5.

66Runt · Dec 20, 2006

do a search on Richmond in this forum

.

grego37 · Dec 20, 2006

im not sure what you mean by toploader replacement?
I installed in a 68 stang, I think the only trimming I had to do, if memory serves me right, was the hole in the floor where the shifter handle comes through, I had to make that hole a little bigger one way or the other. and had a custom cross member made.

Im thinking of upgrading to a richmond 6speed ,
and my 5speed (Doug Nash) Richmond will be for sale or for auction on ebay, Im not sure when im going to do this, but i've always wanted to.

DukeGnarley · Dec 20, 2006

it seems to me, that most of us switching to a 5 speed are after the overdrive. Looking at the richmond website, it would seem that only their 6 speed transmissions come with an overdrive gear. I don't know exact prices but i'm pretty sure their 6 speed trannies are a bit spendy when compared to the tremec tko 5 or 600

grego37 · Dec 20, 2006

when you run a richmond you get the best of both worlds, a car you can drive to the race track, race it and drive it home, so to speak. a quarter mile car you can drive on the freeway, along with the strength and reputation of a top quality american made trans. im not sure if you can find a stronger manual trans.
When you run a richmond, you need to use a rear end gear ratio of 2.75 to 3.25
Their 1 gear ratio is real steep (mine is 3.27)
I dont know the exact math, but with 3.00 gears in the rear, 1-4th gear on the tranny is like the car has 4.11 gears in the rear, and when you shift into 5th gear , it a true 1:1 ratio , matching whatever gear you have in the rear.

Im currently running 2.75 gears in the rear, and it feels like I have 4.11's.
any more than 1/2 throttle at take off and my 275 tires are breakin loose, and on the freeway in 5th gear im buzzin around 2500 at 70mph.

it is sort of like an overdrive trans. without being overdriven.

DukeGnarley · Dec 20, 2006

i looked some stuff up for refrence.

From www.fordracingparts.com

Heavy Duty WC T-5
Weight 83 lbs
Torque Capacity 330 ft-lbs
Gears
1st-2.95, 2nd-1.94, 3rd-1.34, 4th-1.00, 5th-0.63
Price $1,479 (ford racing)

T56
Weight 165 lbs
Torque capacity 440 lbs
Gears
1st-2.97, 2nd-2.07, 3rd-1.43, 4th-1.00, 5th-0.80, 6th-0.62
Price $2,399 (ford racing)

from the www.tremec.com

TKO 500
Weight 105 lbs
Torque capacity 500 ft-lbs
Gears
1st-3.27, 2nd-1.97, 3rd-1.34, 4th-1.00, 5th-0.68 (Reverse 3.0)
Price $1,785-$1,820 (dark horse performance)

TKO600
Torque capacity 600 ft-lbs
Weight 105 lbs
Gears
1st-2.87, 2nd-1.89, 3rd-1.28, 4th-1.00, 5th-0.82/0.64 (Reverse 2.56)
Price $1820-$1967 (dark horse performance)

From www.richmondgear.com

Street 5 spd (for the ford spline, the gm one was a little different)
Weight 95 lbs
Torque capacity 450 ft-lbs
Gears
1st-3.28, 2nd-2.13, 3rd-1.57, 4th-1.24, 5th-1.00 (Reverse 4.79)
Price $1,959 (jegs)

Super Street 5 spd with OD
Weight 106.5 lbs
Torque Capacity 600 ft-lbs
Gears
1st-3.33/2.89, 2nd-1.85, 3rd-1.13, 4th-1.00, 5th-0.77
Price ????

6 spd ROD
Weight 108 lbs
Torque capacity (couldn't find it listed but assuming 450 ft-lbs)
Gears
1st-(4.41/4.06/3.28/3.04), 2nd/3rd-(2.75/2.45/2.22/2.13/1.99/1.57), 4th-(1.24/1.74), 5th-(1.0), 6th(0.76/0.81/0.86/0.91/0.80)
Price $2,909-$3,249 (Jegs)

joncash · Dec 20, 2006

grego37
Basically what I meant was the Richmond catalogue has two Ford applications for most of their trannies: one for a T-5 bellhousing, and one for a Toploader bell. Also, that's a pretty interesting consideration about the gear ratios, especially when the highway r&p ratio gearsets are cheap (or free) for the 8" and 9"...so how come you want to buy a six-speed?

Duke Gnarley, looks like my link didn't work. The Super Street line looks like they're trying to break in to the market that Tremec practically owns, hopefully the pricing is competetive w/ them-- at $1800 eek: remember when they were $1300?) for a TKO, that shouldn't be too hard.
www.richmondgear.com/06pdfs/RG22.pdf

Also, maybe I'm not using the right keywords, but I'm not finding too much on Richmond installs outside of gp001's site, and his car is really cool, but he uses a McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing on a Toploader-spec Richmond. I was interested in using a JMC slave setup on a T-5 spec Richmond. I can't seem to find anything about that.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.
--Mike

joncash · Dec 20, 2006

Duke, looks like we were typing at the same time. Nice comparison. Maybe I'll call Jegs/Summit tomorrow with the Super Street part number and see if I can get some prices to post. Hope it's not too much more than their Street 5-speed.

DukeGnarley · Dec 20, 2006

Wow... missed that one. looks very interesting.

grego37 · Dec 20, 2006

Mike,
I believe its the toploader style bellhousing, its a mcleod (how do you tell the difference?)
I also have a mcleod hyd t/o bearing kit on it

Before I installed the 2.75 I had 3.00 in the rear and it ran like a bat out of hell, unreal!!! I miss that a little, but on the fwy was buzzin around 3000rpm
I changed to the 2.75 mainly for the fwy driving,

so if I changed to the 6 speed, I would change the rear back to 3.00 ratio and have the overdrive for the fwy. the best of both worlds.

if I do the swap no mods would be needed the case is the exact same size.
same driveshaft length, crossmember etc.

Duke, good info on the trannys. Im not sure I trust the tremec rated TQ ratings.
regardless, I'd prefer the American crafted tranny anytime, before going south of the border for a tremec...aren't they made in Mexico?

DukeGnarley · Dec 20, 2006

if it's not too much more expensive then i'll have to give it some serious consideration.

DukeGnarley · Dec 21, 2006

grego37 said:
I'd prefer the American crafted tranny anytime, before going south of the border for a tremec...aren't they made in Mexico?

just looked it up. the tremec transmissions are made in mexico while some of their shift and clutch components are made in america.

joncash · Dec 21, 2006

grego37,
pretty sure the T-5 bellhousing is deeper, honestly not sure if the bolt pattern is different, but the T-5 six-speed will also take the latemodel vehicle speed sensor, which would be nice for an EFi conversion.

Shakin66 · Dec 21, 2006

Unfortunatly the pics I had of the completed tunnel were in my laptop that was stolen over the summer. I am using the stock console with the Mustangs plus restomod shifter. I keep hearing that the richmond is a better 1/4 mile trans because of it's ratios but I dont plan on taking this car to the track but once or twice a year and have a hard time believing the ratios could be any better... The gears are real close together so you can skip gears upshifting. If you want I will try to get some more pictures.

joncash · Dec 21, 2006

Well I called Summit today and they didn't have any pricing info yet on the Super Street transmissions. I'm crossing my finger it won't be three grand .

Shakin66 · Dec 22, 2006

Well I found a picture of the tunnel before the fat mat was applied. Hope this helps.

http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d6/scatpro/?action=view&current=CIMG2258.jpg

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