Will we see a 2005 Mach 1?

oogtdude said:

GTO is a tank..and still using pushrod engines..with plastic dohc covers..when will gm jump into the technology erra? you guys get spanked by ford for 2 years ,then think this new battleship..with ancient technology..is gonna be muscle king?

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DOHC covers???? it isn't a DOHC engine.

if ancient technology means lighter engine with more HP and better gas milage and cleaner emissions than I'll take ancient any day.


Ford beat GM in Muscle cars for the last 2 years b/c GM didn't sell a car that competed, Don't forget that the Camaro dominated for 11 years + before that.

The next real apples to apples match up should come in 2006, GTO vs. Cobra (assuming the Cobra doesn't go up into the $40K+ Vette range)

skywarp said:

To be honest went to a couple Pontiac dealers today. My friends in looking for the GTO. Do you know what they want for this car? They want $39-$41k for this car. Talk about mark up. This is in New York. Expect to see very little of this car on the street until GM dealers wake up.

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I'd tell that dealer to F**K OFF, they tried pulling that crap when the '03 Cobra came out too. Give it a few more months for production to catch up.

[/QUOTE]
I'd tell that dealer to F**K OFF, they tried pulling that crap when the '03 Cobra came out too. Give it a few more months for production to catch up.[/QUOTE]
Believe it or not that was at every dealer except one. One dealer came out flat and lied and said that $39-41k was the msrp. I now understand why GM might have also lost the f-body. Besides a car with little or no function just bad dealers. Not saying that Ford is better at this either. They maybe just as bad. I guy comes in with money to buy a car and right away they wanna screw you.

The Ford dealers areound here were asking $5K over sticker on Mach 1's when they came out. If anyone actually paid that for one they're feeling kind of stupid now.

Z28x said:

Ford beat GM in Muscle cars for the last 2 years b/c GM didn't sell a car that competed, Don't forget that the Camaro dominated for 11 years + before that.

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Hey Toto. Wake up. We're not in dream land anymore

BigBlockStang said:

Hey Toto. Wake up. We're not in dream land anymore

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What are you talking about??????????????

Ned said:

Ive heard that Ford is going to have some sort of special edition mustang for the 2005+ model, besides the Cobra. Apparently they wanted to bring back one of the older classics, I sort of assumed it would be a Mach 1, but I guess not who knows, GT500 or something??

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Can we all say Shelby????

Let me interject some factual evidence...

Here is a guy who dyoned a GTO bone stock I believe. I think they were pretty disappointed. It's kind of funny to read all the complaints from the LS1 guys.

GTO Dyno results

GM is about to learn what Ford, Subaru, and Mitsubishi have learned -- the market for niche cars in the $35k range is a tough one. Look how many 2003 Cobras are *still* on the lots right now. The same goes for the STi, and the Evo -- both are readily available below MSRP. Where does GM get off thinking they're going to sell 18,000 GTO's? That's ridiculous. Even if you actually want a GTO, I would wait a few months, until they start offering $10k rebates.

Dave

HairyCanary said:

Where does GM get off thinking they're going to sell 18,000 GTO's? That's ridiculous. Even if you actually want a GTO, I would wait a few months, until they start offering $10k rebates.

Dave

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18,000 / year, GM must have already lowered their expectations. I just re-read an article from before the GTO was introduced and they were talking about 30,000 / year.

You are correct, Dave, once you get to $35K price, the market gets real tough. There are too many $35K cars and not enough customers right now.

Z28x said:

Ford beat GM in Muscle cars for the last 2 years b/c GM didn't sell a car that competed, Don't forget that the Camaro dominated for 11 years + before that.

The next real apples to apples match up should come in 2006, GTO vs. Cobra (assuming the Cobra doesn't go up into the $40K+ Vette range)
.

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The only thing the camaro has dominated in. Is the amount left on dealer lots at the end of the year. That's why the killed them. They weren't selling well enough to bother with.
As for the Cobra moving up to $40k and being in vette range. I think the Corvette is going up even farther on the price range. Starting at $45k for the base model is what I've read.

351CJ said:

18,000 / year, GM must have already lowered their expectations. I just re-read an article from before the GTO was introduced and they were talking about 30,000 / year.

You are correct, Dave, once you get to $35K price, the market gets real tough. There are too many $35K cars and not enough customers right now.

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On LS1GTO.com somewhere it stated that only around 16K would make to the states due to UAW union clauses. So next year if they introduce the autocross version expect less standard models. Also some Pontiac dealers are getting above sticker for this car. Read my above post. And yes my friend actually found a dealer that day and put money down on a silver and black A4 at MSRP. Know anybody who wants a C5?

SVTdriver said:

The only thing the camaro has dominated in. Is the amount left on dealer lots at the end of the year. That's why the killed them. They weren't selling well enough to bother with.
As for the Cobra moving up to $40k and being in vette range. I think the Corvette is going up even farther on the price range. Starting at $45k for the base model is what I've read.

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Well said. Hey SVTdriver. We might learn to get along after all.

Never thought we couldn't.

There are already pics of the 'new' GTO to replace this 'new' one which substantially change the design - 2005 I think is planned year - and that one is NOT based on the Holden Monaro. It also, while not generic, is ugly as sin.

Ford released a statement that said there would be no Boss unless they had a 'real' 302 to put in it. The Cammer is not a stroked 4.6. The Cammer is also not emissions legal. The Cammer would need substantial effort (money) to become EPA legal AND it already costs 15K. It also does not own the Boss name so licensing is an additional factor and cost.

Tyler. Interesting list of cars. Both the G35 and RX-8 are on my short list. I am waiting until I see a 2005 Mustang in person and drive it.

skywarp said:

Also some Pontiac dealers are getting above sticker for this car.

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A lot of Ford dealers got over sticker on the 2003 Cobra when it came out, because there are always suckers who have to be first, at any cost, to own the new car. But that phenomenon runs out after the first thousand or so.

Dave

a recap of what i've read -

05 Mach 1 - nope
Boss, Cobra, Shelby possibilities in 06

Imma go off topic and try to squish the whole GT vs GTO debate, while probably only enflaming it more

05 GT vs 05 GTO
13.5 stock for GTO according to magazines, the same time should be attainable in a 5 speed mustang GT
Comparing price to price isn't exactly fair, as I believe the GTO has only 1 option (shifting from auto to manual) which actually lowers price because of no guzzler tax
Production runs will be different, the mustang should outsell the GTO at least 10:1 because Mustangs traditionally sell 150-200k cars a year, while the GTO is limited to 18k
Any way you cut it, the GT is cheaper
I doubt the GT will be underrated by much (though 300 hp is a very round number, wouldn't surprise me if they went over that a tiny bit jus to be safe + other reasons earler), but the GTO is heavier and this will, by all accounts, offset

I do agree with people saying the GTO is stopgag until other pony cars can come out. GM seems to simply have done it so that their lineup doesn't look like "Corvette and a bunch of other stuff," without putting a whole ton of development behind it.

Realistically, with its limited run it can only possibly be there for image (and for this reason, GM may see it fit to offer it at a lower price, since volumetrically they won't make much money even if they jack the price up a few grand). The run is supposed to end in 2007, just in time for the projected new F-bodies.

It is a shame GM decided to use the GTO nameplate, I maintain that the Chevelle would have worked better, since you could see it at the same time with a Corvette and the Chevelle (in my eyes, anyway) always looked plainer than a GTO, which would fit the description of the current GTO's body (which does look like a Grand Prix, even though it might have much different guts). To me, they slaughtered an icon. I see a 67 black GTO coupe every day, and even though its not in great shape, it has a stunning look to it, with an aggressive presence that makes me want one. This from a die-hard ford guy. The current GTO makes me laugh every time I have seen it. Think about it, GM did little more than take a car from Australia and throw the GTO nameplate on it. Yes, this is similar to what they did to the original GTO, but now that the car has heritage, you can't do that. Ford can't take the Taurus (the modern equivalent of a Fairlane) and drop a V8 into it and call it a Mustang. GM shouldn't have done that either. The car loses the soul of what is considered by most the first real musclecar.

Anyway, if you are going to compare the Mustang GT to the GTO, the Mustang a) shamelessly lives up to its heritage, b) is a mass-production car meant to back up its power numbers instead of being used only in verbal arguments, and c) will definitely run with a GTO closely while being cheaper. Which is exactly what it should do. Okay /rant on GTO.

And to get back on topic, I am betting that there will be a special edition in 06 outside the Cobra, and while I hope it is a Boss, my gut says it will be a Shelby of some type. A Boss 302 could come later when the F-bodies come out, when a (more affordable and smogged) 5.0 Cammer could really come in handy to fend off LS2 powered Camaros. By then I could foresee them being able to pull that off, it should not be that hard to bore a 4.6 out for an extra 21 cubes.

holy crap that was a book, my apologies

SadbutTrue said:

holy crap that was a book, my apologies

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It may have been a book, but it was a well written book! I was in my early years on this world when the muscle cars were popular. When I was in High School, my first car was a Chevelle SS396. I wish that era in producing cars could come back. With the technology of today, I'm sure they can come up with a 350 hp car that can fly thru emissions. All I can do is dream.....

SadbutTrue said:

a recap of what i've read -

05 Mach 1 - nope
Boss, Cobra, Shelby possibilities in 06

Imma go off topic and try to squish the whole GT vs GTO debate, while probably only enflaming it more

05 GT vs 05 GTO
13.5 stock for GTO according to magazines, the same time should be attainable in a 5 speed mustang GT

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Well put SadbutTrue. I'd also like to add something with out trying to start up the flame war again. The GTO you mentioned is the '04, the '05 is rumored to be getting the 400HP LS2 or LS6. Since nothing is confirmed yet we will just have to wait and see, although it is a fact that they are testing LS2 GTO/Monaros down under right now, but who knows if they will be '05 or '06.

To put in perspective how fast a 400HP '05 GTO would be. THe New 2004 Caddy CTSv is 3800lbs. and has an LS6 and was recently tested at 13.0 in the 1/4 mi.

Now back to the talk of the future Mach 1

I would love to see the new version of the Mach 1. Once they test the waters and get feedback with the new design, I'm sure the previous versions that helped boost the Mustang sales will emerge. I can't wait and might just buy one.

some things I would like to see in the next Mach 1
*Shaker Hood scoop
*Side vents
*Front spoiler
*Improved rear spoiler or a retro to the 1969-1970
*Sounds dorky but rear window slats/louvers

And last but not least.........All Wheel Drive!!.......it will never happen.