Hipo 289 Induction

[65kcode]

I have a 65 Fastback with the original 289hp, but it had all the Shelby updates to the motor. These are original parts, not the repop stuff.

My question, I have been loking at 2x4 set-ups, mainly the original stuff from Ford. While looking I found a guy selling a 2x4 set-up from a company called Blue Thunder. It looks alot like the original castings, but he claims it will out perform the Ford unit.

What is your take on this:

1. Keep the Shelby 4V intake with the 715 Holley
2. Factory Ford 2x4 set-up
3. Go aftermarket with the Blue Thunder, Edelbrock etc.

Please only reply's from people in the know with this vintage engine parts.

Thanks

 

[mr-fixit]

Years ago I bought a 66 Shelby with the 2X4 set up. I could never get it to run as well as a single 4bbl. I finally replaced it with the 3X2 set up and was extremely happy with the way the car ran. When you floored it, it was like you gave it a 200 hp shot of nitrous, and it ran even better when I replaced the stock cam with the Le Mans cam!
Through the years I've owned several 65-66 Shelbys and a couple K code fastbacks, with everything from the stock Autolite carb, to the factory alum. intake with the 715 carb, to a dual quad tunnel ram, none ran as well as the three two barrel set up.

 

[jtfairlane]

It really all depends on your goals for the car.

If you wanted to keep it close to original, or only use factory parts, I'm with mr-fixit in getting a 3x2 setup over a dual quad setup. Most people have trouble getting (and keeping) both 4bbls in proper tune. You could do a 3x2 setup with a trio of 2bbl Holleys. You could also check out Pony Carburetors, who are famous for their Autolite carb restorations, as they offer a 3x2 package which includes the manifold and three 2bbl Autolite 2100s calibrated for that setup. That would be pretty trick.

If you're more interested in bottom-line performance than how you'll fair at a show, than getting an Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap would be the way to go. Of all the dual plane sbf manifolds out there, the Air-Gap has been shown to out power just about everything else.

My .02 cents: You already are obviously looking at shelving the vintage pieces (the cobra manifold and matching 715 holley), so keep them on the shelf and stored for when you want to go back to stock, and instead run what will give you the most fun and performance. For me, that's the Edelbrock Air-Gap. Don't confuse the RPM Air-Gap with the standard Performer RPM. They both operate in the same RPM range, but the Air-Gap has larger runners to handle everything up to carbed 347 strokers. I run it on my 289 and it was a big power increase over my Ford Motorsport M-9424-A321 cobra replica.

 

[65kcode]

Thanks for the information guys. Being that the car is what it is, I'm trying to keep it Ford versus modded. I'd forgotten about the 3x2 set-up. Thinking more about it, that small motor probably can't handle that much raw fuel anyway. I'll look more into the 3x2 set-up.

Fix it- How did the LeMans cam work on the street, is it to much and load up or was it a good upgrade?

Kevin

 

[rbohm]

the lemans cam with the 3x2 package would be a sweet setup. it will run hard when you get it tuned right. i also agree with the dual quad setup being tough to tune, and keep tuned. the only two induction systems that are harder to tune are webers and mechanical fuel injection, and the mechanical fuel injection is real hard to keep tuned. the webers once tuned are set untill you need to rebuild them.

 

[mr-fixit]

Fix it- How did the LeMans cam work on the street, is it to much and load up or was it a good upgrade?

Kevin

The Le Mans cam was very streetable, and could idle at around 700 RPM.and pull to 6,500. I never had any problem with it loading up. I can't remember, I think I was running one range hotter plug then they called for, I think they were AFR32? instead of the 22 they called for, sorry it was long ago. In real life driving, up to 5,000 RPM, I think the Le Mans cam was really only good for about 5 horsepower over the factory Ford HiPo cam. But I had that set up back in the seventies, cams are much better now. In the 65 fastback I have now, the 351W has a cam done by Jay Allen, it is a hydraulic roller, and I don't miss adjusting the solid lifters.

 

[Ronstang]

Years ago I bought a 66 Shelby with the 2X4 set up. I could never get it to run as well as a single 4bbl. I finally replaced it with the 3X2 set up and was extremely happy with the way the car ran. When you floored it, it was like you gave it a 200 hp shot of nitrous, and it ran even better when I replaced the stock cam with the Le Mans cam!
Through the years I've owned several 65-66 Shelbys and a couple K code fastbacks, with everything from the stock Autolite carb, to the factory alum. intake with the 715 carb, to a dual quad tunnel ram, none ran as well as the three two barrel set up.

I am assuming you never owned one with a Weber setup then. There is no comparison.

 

[mr-fixit]

I am assuming you never owned one with a Weber setup then. There is no comparison.

Actually I have friends with the webers, and have worked on them, they certainly have a WOW factor going for them, and they run well well with a cam change. Hey, Shelby used them because they were better then 2x4 or 3x2 carbs. But the cost is up there, and imo they are not the best for a daily driver, cold morning starts are a bitch, and then there is the lack of any real air cleaner

 

[Ronstang]

Actually I have friends with the webers, and have worked on them, they certainly have a WOW factor going for them, and they run well well with a cam change. Hey, Shelby used them because they were better then 2x4 or 3x2 carbs. But the cost is up there, and imo they are not the best for a daily driver, cold morning starts are a bitch, and then there is the lack of any real air cleaner

I never said they were really daily driver friendly. The only issue is the air cleaner one though. I don't run them. I took my engine apart at 15K miles after the rebuild and the Weber install and there was nothing that looked any different inside that a normal engine. I simply changed the oil every 1000-1500 miles and avoided dusty construction areas. If I happened across one I would cut the engine and coast through and fire it up on the other side of the mess. I used to drive the car almost everyday depending on mood. In Texas the coldest day created no problem with cold starts for me so I cannot comment on that. Once you learn how to tune them they are quite easy to maintain. I used to check the carb sync all the time and it got to the point where I could touch it up in under 5 minutes if need be.

 

[69boss429]

With the Shelby manifold and 715 Holley you have a classic combination that works very well.
The dual quad setup definitly has the wow factor and when setup properly really needs no adjusting.If you run vaccum secondaries with progressive linkage on the primaries you are running on the 2 front barrels most of the time,but when you stick your foot in it hang on.
I would upgrade the ignition to at least a Pertronix,but favor the MSD 6AL setup and billet Dist for best results.
I am able to coax 14.5 mpg out of my dual quad Boss 429 and I bet you can get the 289 up a couple from there.

 

[rbohm]

I never said they were really daily driver friendly. The only issue is the air cleaner one though. I don't run them. I took my engine apart at 15K miles after the rebuild and the Weber install and there was nothing that looked any different inside that a normal engine. I simply changed the oil every 1000-1500 miles and avoided dusty construction areas. If I happened across one I would cut the engine and coast through and fire it up on the other side of the mess. I used to drive the car almost everyday depending on mood. In Texas the coldest day created no problem with cold starts for me so I cannot comment on that. Once you learn how to tune them they are quite easy to maintain. I used to check the carb sync all the time and it got to the point where I could touch it up in under 5 minutes if need be.

actually when they are tuned properly, webers are quite daily driver friendly. the problem is that most people get the tune very close, and just accept the drivability problems they encounter, and write them off as being just part of the deal with webers.

 

[65kcode]

Has anybody on here used the pony carbs tri-power set-up? Looks like a good clean unit for a stocker.

 

[geostang351]

Has anybody on here used the pony carbs tri-power set-up? Looks like a good clean unit for a stocker.

My brother has it on his 289 that is sitting in my garage (His car is 75 miles away) He drove it once since he got it so he can give no opinion on it.

 

[D.Hearne]

I've run 2x4's on a 427 and 3x2's on my 331 stroker. The 2x4's are fine for bigger engines but the 3x2 is awesome on a small block. Once either is set, you should never have to touch the carbs. In my experience, when the carb seems to get "out of tune" it's almost always the ignition that's the real cause of the problem. I ran the 3x2's for well over a year on the 331 without touching them. Worn out 3x2's can be a headache though. The setup I have is a repop setup from Mustangs Unlimited with new carbs. I don't recall a lot about the 2x4's on the 427 other than it took awhile to dial them in, and I was constantly having to tune it due to the single point ignition, didn't have the luxury of electronics to replace that twenty + years ago.

 

[mr-fixit]

Well, since we have experts on multiple carbs reading this thread, does anyone have any insight on the new Air Gap dual quad intake for the 351W? My cousin is building a Cobra kit car with a 351W based 408 stroker, and dual quads along with big block valve covers would look cool.

 

[D.Hearne]

As long as you take the time to tune it to the engine and have a reliable ignition system, there should be no regrets to running it. Only thing I'd balk at is the butt-ugly Edelbrock carbs