DOESN'T RUN GOOD AFTER DYNO TUNE

[millhouse]

Yes but you see my driveability is perfect, I have no problems. Installing O2 sensors on a Custom chip tune servs no purpose. They are non-functional at that point.

As perfect as it may seem to be…in all actuality it is far from it. Without your computer being able to make corrections based on your 02 readings, your drivability will suffer. A custom tune does not eliminate the need for 02 sensors. Your computer still needs closed loop mode to make corrections based on 02 readings.

 

[$uperstang]

As perfect as it may seem to be…in all actuality it is far from it. Without your computer being able to make corrections based on your 02 readings, your drivability will suffer. A custom tune does not eliminate the need for 02 sensors. Your computer still needs closed loop mode to make corrections based on 02 readings.

OK its Party time., My car was tuned by Alternative Auto, You being from Michigan May very well know Lidio and his tuning capabilities. Before I took my car there with no tune and O2 sensors it ran like crapp, choppy idle and all unstable. After Lidio's tune with an SCT chip and no O2 sensors everything is perfect. So once again, O2s on a custom SCT tune does nothing. The chip is programmed to tell the compter what to do at this point the O2 sensors have been disabled.

 

[$uperstang]

OK its Party time., My car was tuned by Alternative Auto, You being from Michigan May very well know Lidio and his tuning capabilities. Before I took my car there with no tune and O2 sensors it ran like crapp, choppy idle and all unstable. After Lidio's tune with an SCT chip and no O2 sensors everything is perfect. So once again, O2s on a custom SCT tune does nothing. The chip is programmed to tell the compter what to do at this point the O2 sensors have been disabled.

 

[vristang]

OK its Party time., My car was tuned by Alternative Auto, You being from Michigan May very well know Lidio and his tuning capabilities. Before I took my car there with no tune and O2 sensors it ran like crapp, choppy idle and all unstable. After Lidio's tune with an SCT chip and no O2 sensors everything is perfect. So once again, O2s on a custom SCT tune does nothing. The chip is programmed to tell the compter what to do at this point the O2 sensors have been disabled.

My opinion, your tuner is a hack, and he ripped you off. Here is why I feel this way...

Without the O2's you have lost the Adaptive Strategy. The Adaptive Strategy is what compensates for sensor variation. For example, 2 brand new ECT sensors may be slightly different. OR similarly, a sensors output will vary as it ages.
Both of these types of differences will introduce error into your 'now perfect' custom tune.
What happens when your ACT gets fouled up?
What happens when your MAF gets fouled up?
What happens as you ACT/ECT age?

All of these things will cause small variations in your tune.
Normally, the Adaptive Strategy will correct for that.
However, you will just see your custom tune start to degrade.
You may even see a difference in the tune with weather changes... Others have reported this...



Most often Open Loop tuning is easier for a tuner to figure out and get right. Look at it from the perspective of the shop performing the tune...
The more tunes he can do in a given day, the more money he makes...
If he can cut an 30 minutes off your tune time, then maybe he can squeeze in one more tune per day.

The bottom line is...
Creating a custom tune which does not utilize Adaptive is a short cut.



I seriously doubt that installing O2's will do any good for you now. Unless the tuner took another MAJOR shortcut, you will need to get the car re-tuned in order to get the car into CL.

My advise is to go back to the tuner, and ask him to do the job right.
Actually, no... I would just find another tuner...





But that is just my opinion,
jason

 

[$uperstang]

VRISTANG you must not know Lidio either. HE is simpy the BEST Tuner in the Eastern side of the US, I would put him up against anyone in the world Actually. People travel hundreds if not thousands of miles to get their car tuned at Alternative, I was just lucky enough to live right by him Thanks for your input though.

 

[Red88 RICK]

My opinion, your tuner is a hack, and he ripped you off. Here is why I feel this way...

Without the O2's you have lost the Adaptive Strategy. The Adaptive Strategy is what compensates for sensor variation. For example, 2 brand new ECT sensors may be slightly different. OR similarly, a sensors output will vary as it ages.
Both of these types of differences will introduce error into your 'now perfect' custom tune.
What happens when your ACT gets fouled up?
What happens when your MAF gets fouled up?
What happens as you ACT/ECT age?

All of these things will cause small variations in your tune.
Normally, the Adaptive Strategy will correct for that.
However, you will just see your custom tune start to degrade.
You may even see a difference in the tune with weather changes... Others have reported this...



Most often Open Loop tuning is easier for a tuner to figure out and get right. Look at it from the perspective of the shop performing the tune...
The more tunes he can do in a given day, the more money he makes...
If he can cut an 30 minutes off your tune time, then maybe he can squeeze in one more tune per day.

The bottom line is...
Creating a custom tune which does not utilize Adaptive is a short cut.



I seriously doubt that installing O2's will do any good for you now. Unless the tuner took another MAJOR shortcut, you will need to get the car re-tuned in order to get the car into CL.

My advise is to go back to the tuner, and ask him to do the job right.
Actually, no... I would just find another tuner...





But that is just my opinion,
jason

OWNED!!!

 

[vristang]

VRISTANG you must not know Lidio either. HE is simpy the BEST Tuner in the Eastern side of the US, I would put him up against anyone in the world Actually. People travel hundreds if not thousands of miles to get their car tuned at Alternative, I was just lucky enough to live right by him Thanks for your input though.

If he really is that good then it only makes it worse that he took this short cut on YOUR car.
If he is that good, then you should feel slightly insulted right now

What kind of tuning does he 'normally' do? carbs? chevy? other?
From the reports I have gathered from others, most often this shortcut is done by guys that don't have much experience with the Ford EEC-IV.


I wish you luck with the tune,
If you hook up O2's, please let us know how it works out...

jason

 

[$uperstang]

If he really is that good then it only makes it worse that he took this short cut on YOUR car.
If he is that good, then you should feel slightly insulted right now

What kind of tuning does he 'normally' do? carbs? chevy? other?
From the reports I have gathered from others, most often this shortcut is done by guys that don't have much experience with the Ford EEC-IV.


I wish you luck with the tune,
If you hook up O2's, please let us know how it works out...

jason

Maybe you guys should check out his shop before jumping in with your theories:

www.alternativeauto.com

He does this type of tune on all cars.

He has been a Ford technician for 15 years as a drivability tech

He only works on EFI Ford EEC-IV and anything else Ford can throw his way

You should see what power he has put out on GT 500 Shelbys with simple tuning

The guy is a mastermind calibrator.

:SNSign:

 

[$uperstang]

OWNED!!!

www.alternativeauto.com

DOUBLE OWNED

 

[85ragtop]

Let's be nice guys.

 

[millhouse]

Maybe you guys should check out his shop before jumping in with your theories:

www.alternativeauto.com

He does this type of tune on all cars.

He has been a Ford technician for 15 years as a drivability tech

He only works on EFI Ford EEC-IV and anything else Ford can throw his way

You should see what power he has put out on GT 500 Shelbys with simple tuning

The guy is a mastermind calibrator.

:SNSign:

Yes, I've heard of Lidio (actually, informally met him once) and I still agree with vristang on this one. If indeed he tuned your car eliminating the 02's input...I'd say you got jobbed.

Think of it this way, eliminating the 02's forces you to have one single tune for all conditions. The computer will not compensate for afr differences caused by changes in barometric pressure, iat temps, humidity etc. It's not a matter of making the most power (WOT is open loop regaurdless). It's a matter of (as vristang stated) utilizing the computers ability for adaptive strategy.

 

[jhonda]

Maybe he means he has no rear O2 sensors but still has the 1st ones

 

[$uperstang]

Maybe he means he has no rear O2 sensors but still has the 1st ones

There are only two O2 sensors on a Mustang, no front and rear.

 

[vristang]

There are only two O2 sensors on a Mustang, no front and rear.

I think jhonda was referring to sn95's there.


To be fair I will check out his site.
However, there is no need to eliminate the O2's...

 

[CONCRETEWARFARE]

So basically bottom line is that if I put in new o2 sensors i should deffinately see an improvement right?

 

[vristang]

So basically bottom line is that if I put in new o2 sensors i should deffinately see an improvement right?

It is going to depend on HOW the tuner forced OL...

If the tuner did not make any changes, and is simply relying on the Alternative Fuel Strategy, then adding in O2's should make a difference.

On the other hand, if the tuner made some setting changes to force OL in the ecu, then adding in O2's will do nothing for you...

Personally, I would go back to the tuner (or just give him a call) and have a talk with him...
Don't be rude or arrogant, just ask him why the car is behaving the way it is. I am sure that during that discussion the removal of the O2's will come up.

jason

 

[CONCRETEWARFARE]

ok, im pretty sure the tuning was just basically just timing and fuel pressure because I didnt have a chip burned. So I think that it was basically tuned as is.

 

[Mike97gt]

Maybe you guys should check out his shop before jumping in with your theories:

www.alternativeauto.com

He does this type of tune on all cars.

He has been a Ford technician for 15 years as a drivability tech

He only works on EFI Ford EEC-IV and anything else Ford can throw his way

You should see what power he has put out on GT 500 Shelbys with simple tuning

The guy is a mastermind calibrator.

:SNSign:

Eliminating adaptive strategy is HACK, no matter who did it..

What I am about to say below might not be your case and i don't know if this is the case with your tuner but I have seen this happen..

Sometimes even in shops with good reps short cuts are taken on a car that is not deemed " important" I know a guy here in Massachusetts with a real good rep with GM's who did great work on cars owned by pro athletes and other rich guys that would spend a ton with him, but he would hack cars owned by regular people that have less money to spend. In fact he used to hire one really cheap guy that did not know **** and have him work on the poor peoples cars. While He and his good staff work on the big money spenders.

There are only two O2 sensors on a Mustang, no front and rear.

Depends on what year the mustang is. EEC V cars will have 4 02 sensors front sensors before the cats that are used for fuel trim correction and rear after the cat 02's that are used for catalyst efficiency monitoring

 

[vristang]

ok, im pretty sure the tuning was just basically just timing and fuel pressure because I didnt have a chip burned. So I think that it was basically tuned as is.

Has your drivability returned, or is it still running rough?
Did you get the O2's back in?

Sorry your thread ended up being diluted with a side track...


jason

 

[DEFWISH]

You need O2 sensors for the computer to adjust air/fuel ratio. The O2 sensor provides feedback to the computer letting it know if you are running rich or lean. Without O2 sensors, the computer doesn't have any feedback.

doesn't it start reading more than just the O2 Sensors when i hits closed loop?