AFR185 info

[RIO5.0]

Gents....

Im def taking my motor out for a Winter refresh...I thinking a 306, dished pistons to run the 185's, have it balanced, Holley Systemax intake and step up the size of the LTs.

Friend has a bud who builds short track motors so the machine work is all set.

Are 185s a waste on a 306 in your opinion? Im thinking of keeping the Steeda 19 and the Scorp 1.6 to kinda keep the budget down. I know I gotta step up the F/P and inj's..

Anyway..like to hear your thoughts and opinions...I wanna stay N/A and the budget is 3500.00

 

[final5-0]

Hey Andy

I've never claimed to know all that much about cams and all that goes with them
but
My gut kinda makes me wonder if that cam would be too mild for your plan

Seems like those heads ... with their larger ports .......
might want something in a cam that would be more efficient up high

Grady

 

[blksn955.o]

I would get a custom cam for sure if your going 185's.

The guys on hardcore seem to get great results from well put together 185's and 306's. You would probably want to make sure it is setup to rev 7.500 or so as those bigger ports would probably use the extra rpm with the smaller cid.

 

[Killercanary]

I've seen a few examples over the years where 185's were used in 306 combos and the results were above the norm, so I say go for it. As was said, you may want to get a cam that matches that combo better than what you have now.

 

[2002BLGT]

you would wanna run a 560 lift at minimum , and atleast a 234 dur. at .050

 

[RIO5.0]

Thanks guys...all valid points and preciate your input.....I'm just trying to think it thru.. Looking at the price on heads, the 185s really arent much more than 165s so I was leaning that way??? But they may not be the best choice for where I wanna go.

I wanna run the stock EEC/RPM extender Im using and don't really wanna get a chip so my thinking is I need to watch things. I dont want something I gotta wring up to 6500 to come alive... i'm sure its badazz to have something that revs to 7500, and that would be sweet sounding..

My thinking was the Steeda was good to the car EEC/vac wise so why not keep it, knowing Id be leaving some power behind. Ive had super luck to date with the car and hate to loose that, ya know...My main goal is streetable..I have no plans to run the snot out of it at the drags. I'm not sure at what point the mods go beyond the ability of the stock EEC in regards to boring it and changing the compression ratio??

I'll prolly get the heads from FTI since he's close by and pick his brain some..
If I can't get much more outta the 185s vs 165s to meet my goals I'll go smaller...

If I can do the heads, balance it up, add the Holley intake, some 42's, re-cal the meter and up the pump size I should be purdy decent...The thing runs sweet as it is.
What I dont wanna do is spend like 6k or some chit...just looking to step it up some.

 

[Zero_chance]

I definitely see where youre coming from on the camshaft. If you just want a little more oomph and like the streetability you have now, Id say go with the plan you have in mind. I frequently find myself stressing when I think about upgrades because Im so used to trying to think about the perfectly matched combo... that by the time I do that, Im way over my intended budget and not where I wanted to be. If its not a dedicated racer, go with what you want and be happy. Who cares if theres a few horsepower hiding in the camshaft? If you ever get bored with the current setup, at least then youll know a few more ponies are just a custom camshaft away.

 

[toyman]

If I can do the heads, balance it up, add the Holley intake, some 42's, re-cal the meter and up the pump size I should be purdy decent...The thing runs sweet as it is.
What I dont wanna do is spend like 6k or some chit...just looking to step it up some.

I don't believe you can run 42's and a larger MAF with the stock ECU. Also Ford MAF's are not calibrated.

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

Andy, why stop at a 306, if you're going with a refresh, unless you're using the stock crank?

You can definitely go with larger than 42's though. Once I finally get my blown combo up and running (when I stop hitting snags along the way... ), I'll be running 60lb injectors, dual 255lph pumps (in-tank and Vortech T-Rex), and an SCT BA-2400 MAF. I'll be making Wes and Grady help me tune it!

 

[RIO5.0]

If you just want a little more oomph and like the streetability you have now, Id say go with the plan you have in mind. I frequently find myself stressing when I think about upgrades because Im so used to trying to think about the perfectly matched combo... that by the time I do that, Im way over my intended budget and not where I wanted to be..

Being over budget is my main concern... i only got so much to throw at it so somethings gotta give...

Toyman... you can def run a larger MAF along with the stock puter, doing that at the moment...

 

[RIO5.0]

Andy, why stop at a 306, if you're going with a refresh, unless you're using the stock crank?

You can definitely go with larger than 42's though. Once I finally get my blown combo up and running (when I stop hitting snags along the way... ), I'll be running 60lb injectors, dual 255lph pumps (in-tank and Vortech T-Rex), and an SCT BA-2400 MAF. I'll be making Wes and Grady help me tune it!

Exactly...where do you stop....

I will be using the stock crank...i'm mostly going the 306 route if I go the 185s...a 347 would be much nicer but I'm not going there... I think...

 

[toyman]

Being over budget is my main concern... i only got so much to throw at it so somethings gotta give...

Toyman... you can def run a larger MAF along with the stock puter, doing that at the moment...

I said 42's and larger MAF. A larger MAF (C&L & Pro-M) as I understand it manipulate the MAF voltage so as to create a MAF curve that matches the stock PCM. I'm not certain as to the benefits using the stock 19's. All I was trying to point out was that it's best to match the system in it's entirety and that at the end of the day you will most likely require a chip, stand alone EMS or tuning device and a tune.

 

[RIO5.0]

I been hunting around it it seems a 347 can be had for damn near the same cost as a 306... I'm looking at these 2 sites for my shortblock and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna talk with FTI on the entire valvetrain and then do the motor assy myself.
looks like these are 28 balanced so I need flywheel and balancer and then 36's or so as I think the 24s will be to small... I think this combo will come in around 400 hp or so..
My biggest fear is I still want this thing streetable more than anything and hopefully I can run my stock EEC... I really dont wanna get a chip burned as the stock electronics have done fine...

The budget has just move up to 4200.00 or so...

Anyone have a recent ballpark on what Ed gets for a valvetrain set-up...I'm thinking 2K, minus an intake should do???

Any info on these guys???

FordStrokers.com


T&L engines.....
I been i touch with these guys and they can also do a longblock for decent money..look around their web..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/302-...ryZ33615QQihZ002QQitemZ120174372384QQtcZphoto

 

[turbogt]

I've heard good things about fordstrokers.com

But, things ALWAYS end up being FAR more expensive than you expected.. just keep that in mind


Custom Cam would be a MUST

 

[lickem]

i was under the assumption after talking with afr that they recommend 165's for under a 347 and they recommend 185's for 347 and above. is that not right?

also i think i read before that a 331 is the better choice as far as reliability since you dont have to do any machine work to clearance the crank vs a 347 you do, is that not right?

 

[final5-0]

Yes ... I think 24's are too small for a 347 as well

36's will do nicely but I've seen they are getting hard to find

I don't see how you are gonna run an untuned pcm with
a 347 and 36lb injectors or larger

Even if you get a meter caled for the injs and run in cheat mode .......

Yes ... it might start up and run
and
You might be able to get it to run good enough to drive it
but
Two concerns very quickly come to mind about that

1# With 50 more cubic inches ........
The load factors in the pcm are gonna be all outta whack

2# The fuel is gonna be way off in the pcm

Grady

 

[Grn92LX]

i was under the assumption after talking with afr that they recommend 165's for under a 347 and they recommend 185's for 347 and above. is that not right?

also i think i read before that a 331 is the better choice as far as reliability since you dont have to do any machine work to clearance the crank vs a 347 you do, is that not right?

Not right for both

I'd go 347 if you can afford it. Its going to be tough to do all this stuff though with a $3500 budget. Dont even waste the time/money going 306, save a little longer and go 347 since the block will need the same machining and balancing anyway. I don't remember exactly what my 347 build cost back in 05 when I did it. I did use some old parts from the 302 and sold a lot of stuff also like my intake, longtubes and fti cam.

 

[Venom351R]

Andy I have a Crower 15512 camshaft that is a more aggressive cam then the Steeda #19. Its just paper weight now Id be happy to get rid of it.

 

[DDSTANG94]

Thanks guys...all valid points and preciate your input.....I'm just trying to think it thru.. Looking at the price on heads, the 185s really arent much more than 165s so I was leaning that way??? But they may not be the best choice for where I wanna go.

I wanna run the stock EEC/RPM extender Im using and don't really wanna get a chip so my thinking is I need to watch things. I dont want something I gotta wring up to 6500 to come alive... i'm sure its badazz to have something that revs to 7500, and that would be sweet sounding..

My thinking was the Steeda was good to the car EEC/vac wise so why not keep it, knowing Id be leaving some power behind. Ive had super luck to date with the car and hate to loose that, ya know...My main goal is streetable..I have no plans to run the snot out of it at the drags. I'm not sure at what point the mods go beyond the ability of the stock EEC in regards to boring it and changing the compression ratio??

I'll prolly get the heads from FTI since he's close by and pick his brain some..
If I can't get much more outta the 185s vs 165s to meet my goals I'll go smaller...

If I can do the heads, balance it up, add the Holley intake, some 42's, re-cal the meter and up the pump size I should be purdy decent...The thing runs sweet as it is.
What I dont wanna do is spend like 6k or some chit...just looking to step it up some.

buy my top end kit....cheap....

 

[RIO5.0]

buy my top end kit....cheap....

Ya...thats the set-up on Corral??? I was just looking at that again and was gonna PM you and seen you left...... I think we need to talk....

Thanks for your thoughts guys...347 is def the way to go pricewise.

Grady... good thoughts...I had a funny feeling I was gonna get screwed like that...kinda asking alot of the stock set-up...damn... Thats another 5 bills for a SC chip...

Travis...Good deal...preciate the thought...