It's official, I hate EFI!!!

nunly94gt

Founding Member
Feb 3, 2002
1,595
3
38
Mobile, Al
I hate fuel injection, Im an old school, cigarette in the mouth idle and air adjust screw turning kinda guy.
So im gonna throw a carb on it, I spent all that money getting the MAF conversion stuff, and just completly destroyed the wiring harness.
Im a simple man, but I got so aggravated with the wiring that I broke a few things, said awful words, and cut the wiring harness off.
So Im stuck there now, which is no problem for me. Ive been down this road before with the carb and had lots of success with it.

Is there a good link where I can refresh my memory on the swap? I have searched on here but all I get is everyone saying "do a search, you will find what you need" Im guessing those people havent done the search recently. Also the "jason.fletcher" thing is down so I cant use that. Just need a shove in the right direction.:nice:
 
Hmm

What exactly did you have a problem with as far as the Mass Air conversion goes?

I just did one a few weeks ago on my 87 and it went really smoothly.

I ran 4 lines through the firewall to the MAF and into the computer plug, you move a few pins, you splice a few and you're done. You shouldn't need to cut the harness at all.

I'd be happy to try to help you out if you have any specific questions.
 
Well I cut it because I had it. I ran all the wires, everything they needed. The fuel pump relay and the VSS. It wouldnt stay running. Found the brown(maf signal) wire loose. fixxed that and it ran but idled rough....however it ran and idled. I then put the CPU back in the kick panel and same thing happened. I figured I somehow had a loose wire. Pulled it back out and wiggled all the wires. Nothing changed, pulled on the brown wire again and it oulled out of the soldered connection to the pin, leaving the pin in the car.
Well no sweat....I got a pick and was unlocking the pin and it brok off in the harness.
 
Hmm

Just a few quick things to confirm...

You did unplug the vac line going to the MAP sensor and then plug the vac line too right?

Along with this:

Red Main Power (12v+) Splice into wire at pin 37 or 57
Black Main Ground (12v-) Splice into wire at pin 40 or 60
Brown MAF Signal Ground Place in pin 9
Blue MAF Signal Place in pin 50

Swapped pin locations too...

Then switch #51 to position #38, and #11 to position #32

Finally add Pin 19 and splice into the fuel pump relay (PK/BK) under the drivers seat.

Cruise control (if you have it) pins 3 and 6 also need to be added and spliced into the O/Y and DG/Wh wires behind the drivers side kick panel.

If the pin is broke, not a huge deal http://www.mass-air.com can sell you a few, not sure how much though.

If you solder those, you just have to be careful only to put in the wire about half way when you solder. They retaining clips wont catch if the wire is in the whole pin body with solder. (learned that the hard way)

If you wanna go carb... go for it... but EFI can be nice on a daily driver and you sound like you are really close to completing the conversion.

Hang in there, we all get frustrated... You'll get it.
 
Well its not gonna be a daily driver. More of a weekend warrior. I love the way EFI runs....I really do but for what I want I feel that a carb is the easiest way to go.

I hooked everything, up the way the IST paper showed and the way it was on here. Ive just been fighting it for a week and I finally got sick of it. That and I have always enjoyed a good carbuerator.
 
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Mechanical Changes
Intake and Carburetor: Of course if you are converting from EFI to carb you must have an intake manifold and a carburetor. Just be sure to size the components to match your combination properly.

Fuel System: You will need a new fuel pump and pickup. Do NOT use the existing EFI pump. You can either use an electric low pressure pump designed for a carb (like the Holley red or blue pumps) or go with a mechanical fuel pump. In either case you must replace the fuel pickup on top of the gas tank with a purpose built pickup that does not include an in-tank pump. The Mustang Performance Handbook Vol. 1 includes plans to build your own pickup if you decide not to shell out the $100 that it takes to buy an aftermarket one. If you have a drag car it may be time to upgrade to a fuel cell or modify your existing tank for a bottom sump. At this time I also recommend you go with new fuel line from the tank to the carb. Use 3/8" minimum or larger based on your needs. Remember that many sanctioned race tracks will only allow up to 12" of rubber fuel line so go with aluminum wherever possible, and keep the lines in-between the frame rails for safety. To use a mechanical fuel pump you must change the front timing cover on the engine to one that accepts a bolt-on fuel pump. You may also need a fuel pump eccentric to drive the pump. My '88 motor had one from the factory but I have heard of some roller motors that do not have them.

Ignition: Replace the distributor with one from an '85 manual transmission Mustang. This distributor has a steel gear to be compatible with a roller cam. Also use a Ford Duraspark II ignition box. Follow the Ford Duraspark II Ignition System article on this website to hook it up right. A complete MSD distributor and box could also be used as a step up from the factory stuff.

Brackets & Linkage: Any fox body accelerator linkage will work as long as the car was equipped with a carbureted V8. Look for a '79-'85 V8 Mustang or an '83-'88 V8 T-bird if you go junkyard searching. You will also need the throttle cable bracket attached to the intake manifold and a throttle return spring.

Transmission: This is probably the most critical step of the whole process. If you have a manual transmission you have nothing to worry about. However, if you have an AOD automatic you need a TV (throttle valve) cable. You can purchase this from Lokar Performance (NOTE: this is the same cable that Windsor-Fox Performance carries except $25 cheaper from Lokar direct). Setup is critical so follow the instructions included closely. Setting up the cable wrong will lead to a burned up transmission in very short order.



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Electrical Changes
The electrical changes described here are for a 1990 Mustang. All '89-'93 mass air equipped Stangs will be very similar. '86-'88 speed density and '94-'95 mass air Stangs will also be close but some changes will be necessary. The best method to keep the wiring straight is to purchase a Chilton's Manual that includes wiring diagrams. Compare your car's wiring to the 1990 Mustang wiring. By using this outline and the correct wiring diagram the job will be much easier.

Your car is divided into two harnesses; the EEC harness and the main or "chassis" harness. The EEC harness contains all of the computer related sensors, actuators, and such. It also contains some of the wiring for the air bag system. The chassis harness contains everything else; headlights, fuel pump wiring, instrument cluster, etc., etc. In order for the EEC to receive power from the battery, control fuel pump, and the airbag to work properly, the two harnesses must mesh together at some point. There are 4 of these points:

--Two connectors near the computer (passenger-side kick panel). One is green, one is gray. Both are 8-pin connectors I believe. One is rectangular and the other is round.

--Two connectors near the driver's side hood hinge and right above the master cylinder. One is gray, one is black. They are both round, 8-pin connectors. One of the connectors does not utilize all 8 pins.

The first thing to do is the part that's the most fun! LOL Disconnect the battery (of course!). Remove the computer and the EEC Power relay that sits directly above the computer. On the 60-pin connector that plugs into the computer, remove the black plastic "cap" which holds the wire bundle at a 90 degree angle to the connector. Unplug the two 8-pin connectors mentioned above, unscrew the bare wire ground and you should be able to pull the harness up into the engine compartment. The oval-shaped grommet will come with the harness, so use a screwdriver to pop it out of the hole.

Once you've got that done, everything you need to remove is under the hood. Just start at one end of the harness and work your way around and disconnect everything you come to that attaches to the EEC harness. As a minimum, you're going to have to remove the upper intake to get to all this. This should include the following items:

--TAB/TAD solenoids
--EVR solenoid
--MAF meter
--Air Bag connector below MAF
--Round 8-pin connector below MAF
--EVP solenoid
--TPS
--IAC
--All 8 injectors
--Water temp sender
--Oil pressure sender
--TFI module
--ACT
--ECT
--Carbon canister solenoid
--ground at starter solenoid (single pin connector)
--Two connectors located near brake booster

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but just disconnect everything you come to and the entire EEC harness will pull out. You will be shocked at how much all that copper weighs..LOL

Once you've got everything out, it's time to start re-wiring. All the re-wiring will take place at the two connectors by the brake booster that you unhooked earlier. This is how you will tap into the chassis harness and get things like the fuel pump working again. Best way to accomplish this is to tap into the wires just below the connectors. I use those little plastic splice connectors...works great. Be sure to tape up the open ends of the connectors to prevent water from getting in there.

If you've got a Chiltons with the wiring diagrams in it, I will include the reference numbers for each wire if you'd like to look them up.

On the Gray Harness:

---Wire #16 (red/light green - 16 Ga) to the ignition trigger/turn-on lead. On my MSD it's the thinner red wire.

---Wire #11 (Dark Green/Yellow - 20 Ga) to the negative side of coil or the "tach out" port on an MSD. This is the line to your stock tach.

On the Black Harness:

----GROUND #97 (tan/light green - 18ga) to a suitable chassis ground. This creates the ground for the primary side of the fuel pump relay.

---Wire #39 (red/white 20ga) to the temp sender.

---Wire #31 (white/red 20ga) to the oil pressure sender.

---Wire #361 (red 16ga) to #16 (the wire you ran to the ignition turn-on above). This creates the positive voltage supply for the primary side of the fuel pump relay.

Only other thing that you need to do is when wiring in the fuel pump itself. Just get the polarity right on the two wires that are coming off the stock EFI pump. I cut them and extended them out to where my Holley Blue is.

On the underside of the car, you can disconnect the O2 sensors and oil level sensor (side of oil pan) and pull that harness out too. I didn't mess with it, but you could rewire the oil level sensor to still be operational if you wanted.

After that, you should be good to go! As far as wiring the ignition, you'll have to run wires to the positive side of the battery and chassis ground as well as wire the pickup to the distributor. If you've got an MSD, the diagram can be found at: MSD Ignition

Just in case you didn't know, the smaller the gauge (Ga) of a wire, the bigger around it is. That should help you to distinguish between the right wires. Your fuel level gauge will still work properly (providing you didn't put an old carb tank in the car) and your ammeter should work fine as well.
 
Fix the EFI.

I think because you have carb experience that you feel that you are going to just slap a bunch of carb parts on there and it will run great, just as you had issues installing the efi, you can have issues with the carb setup.

Besides the carb is going to cost you money, and the efi costs you elbow grease. I know in that situation unless you have extra cash, i take the elbow grease 100% of the time.
And if you do have the cash to do the carb, just use that money to pay someone to fix the efi.

Also consider your car will lose a ton of value with the carb on it. People who want 5.0's generally don't want a carburator.
I know we don't build these cars to make money, but in this economy it would be nice to know if you had to sell it, prospective buyers don't open the hood and have to ask you WTF you did.
 
Well, I cant afford the EFI setup I want to run in the future. Hell the only Dyno shop for mustangs around here charges $300 an hour. I devised a slight EFI rough list for my project vs carb.
Dyno time- + - $600
Intake- $500- 600
Injectors- $250
Fuel pump- $100
Regulator- $100
Cam- $250
Heads- $1000- 1500 (not set on what yet)
Bottom end build- $1200
Exhaust- $300
Rockers- $250

This is $4550 for EFI,
$3K for the stuff that goes either way

Carbeurated-
Carb- $250
Intake- $250
Ignition for carb- $300
Fuel pump w/ regulator- $100
Fuel lines and wiring stuff- $100

This is $1000 all together

Roughly $500 or more dollars for the same type setup. But to me there is a piece of mind knowing I can tune/work on a carb. The last one I had ran better than any car I ever owned. To achieve my overall goals with EFI I need a power adder(turbo or blower) with carb I get a compression bump, and slap a Nitrous plate on the carb.
I know everyone on here is ANTI-CARB:shrug: but I am not. Wiring and computers dont do it for me. I wanted to try it because it was diffferent for me. It just made me realize I love carbs.
 
Umm, why exactly do you need $600+ in dyno time?
You don't need to dyno tune 300rwhp NA setups, you won't get any power from it.
The computer does all the work, and beats out almost all custom dyno tunes.
I'd say 90% of the cars on this forum have no dyno tune. It's not like the 96 and newer cars, you don't "have" to do it.
So by your math the Efi comes out $100 cheaper.

And that's with new, expensive parts, Used, intakes are $300 or less, injectors can be had for $125.

No matter which way you slice it, you lose money going to a carb on a car that already has efi.
 
It is time to broaden your horizons and increase your knowledge...

Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $25-$35 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select boo...autoshop16.html]Automotive Online Instruction for a beginning course. The course is very good and best of all, it is FREE!!!

I realize that this is a detour and diversion from your current problem, but the end results will help you find and fix problems quicker and cheaper.