does the four link really suck?

[TenorPlayinGuy]

Panhard bar, will prevent the rear steer issue. The torque arm will allow you to get rid of your upper control arms and give you a more free moving rear end. (still need the panhard bar) Then a good set of lower control arms to handle the planting of the tires. This is the direction I am heading, after all the research I've taken and many communications with Jason from MM, great fellow.

You want less unpredictability from your rear end... get the panhard bar. The torque arm would be second on the list. IMO... thats the order to follow.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

The weak links in the rear factory 4-link are the control arms. Getting rid of the factory lowers with the squishy rubber bushings is the first step. If you replace them with lowers that have spherical bearings at one end e.g. MM, that'll reduce suspension bind and make cornering more predictable. You might even be able to get rid of the quad shocks at this point and still not have wheel hop upon launch.
You then could do coilovers and reduce unsprung weight but that doesn't address the real weakness which is now the factory uppers. The question then becomes what to do next? You could do:

1. Adjustable uppers with spherical bearings at the axle end e.g. Edelbrock as I did. You'd still have a 4-link but these will further reduce suspension bind and reduce lateral axle movement. Handling becomes more predictable with improved grip exiting corners and less risk of snap oversteer. You can also adjust pinion angle. A simple, cheap fix but there's better.

2. Watt link. You can do away with the upper control arms altogether and you now effectively have a 3-link. Excellent, neat, but you'll need a side exit exhaust 'cause there's no room for tailpipes.

3. Torque arm/Panhard bar. Also effectively a 3-link set-up, also excellent, but requires subframe connectors with crossmember to mount front end of torque arm. Adds a lot of weight, reduces ground clearance, and you need to modify the midpipe for clearance.

4. Steeda 5-link. A neat idea really. With the upper control arms now parallel to the lowers to control axle rotation and a panhard bar to prevent lateral movement.

Uhm Have you ever installed a TA/PHB combo? It does not reduce ground clearance, it may require subframe connectors, but IMO any fox that is meant to hang out in a turn should have them to keep from tearing apart. The forward crossmember is not an issue as it ust gives you that one more location that ties the 2 sides together effectively stiffening the car even further. Adds weight but not alot. And your mid pipe does not need to be modifed for clearance unless you're running a BBK X pipe, Allows access to the diff cover without removing anything unlike a watts link, Allows removal of upper control arms UNLIKE a Watts link. With a watts link you still need some type of TA setup, Again this costs more cash in the end, the differences in the two are negligible and the debate between the 2 has been fought for a long time, But its proven that a PHB/TA works and is definitely cheaper than a Watts/TA setup

 

[BPA]

Griggs is not meant for ANY type of street use BTW

How do you figure? The parts they use are beefier than the MM stuff and better made. Not trying to argue with you, just curious. Last time I spoke with Bruce Griggs that wasn't the case and I don't think they have changed anything in their parts bin since my last visit.

 

[TenorPlayinGuy]

I'm sure it was meant for the fact that ride quality on the street would suffer greatly, not that it couldn't be used on the road.

 

[BPA]

Ride quality with adjustable koni's or like brand struts is up to what spring rate you go with on your coils. If you picked a high rate with either brand you wouldn’t want to drive it on the street much.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

Uhm Have you ever installed a TA/PHB combo?

Not yet. I may just add a Panhard bar to my existing set-up and call it a day.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

How do you figure? The parts they use are beefier than the MM stuff and better made. Not trying to argue with you, just curious. Last time I spoke with Bruce Griggs that wasn't the case and I don't think they have changed anything in their parts bin since my last visit.

'Cause thats what they themselves stated to me before i built my car, and no its not beefier than MM, they engineer their parts to have the LEAST amount of material possible to save weight, thus not being made for the street, does that mean you cant run their stuff on the street? No, but they dont recommend it either. When i called he asked me this "Do you EVER plan on driving your car on the street?" i told him yes he said "Then you may want to give MM a call, here's their number..." Trust me for my next all out track car i'll be using Griggs but for street/course use i'll be using MM

 

[njoliver]

I buy most of my parts from MM their parts are pretty pricey over competitors pricing. But they do make some great durable good quality parts.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

I buy most of my parts from MM their parts are pretty pricey over competitors pricing. But they do make some great durable good quality parts.

MM is cheaper than griggs, IMO thats the only competitor for them

 

[jrichker]

What you need to do first is to give serious though on what you want to do with the car.

1.) Look closely at the rule book for the racing association that promotes and organizes the races you want to participate in. Some of the modifications to suspension can put you in a higher class where is is more difficult and expensive to compete. This is especially true if you use the car as a daily driver since the suspension must be dual purpose. Racing your Mustang against a race car only Corvette that is owned by Mr Bigbucks puts you at a serious disadvantage. In many cases, it's not cubic inches that wins races, but cubic dollars.

2.) Are you going to drive it on the street more than just to and from the race track? if so, be aware that some suspension setups like torque arms are not so street friendly.

3.) Is it going to be a race car only? if so, a torque arm is the best solution for a corner carver. Drag race cars will use a different setup..

4.) Based on your decision on what you want to do with the car, buy a package or kit from one vendor. That way you know it will all fit together properly and that any strange compatibility bugs have all been worked out. That will greatly reduce the problems getting the vendor to provide support when you need it. Buy a piece here and a part there can bing up some strange handling characteristics that you may not have the time, money or engineering talent to correct.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

What you need to do first is to give serious though on what you want to do with the car.

1.) Look closely at the rule book for the racing association that promotes and organizes the races you want to participate in. Some of the modifications to suspension can put you in a higher class where is is more difficult and expensive to compete. This is especially true if you use the car as a daily driver since the suspension must be dual purpose. Racing your Mustang against a race car only Corvette that is owned by Mr Bigbucks puts you at a serious disadvantage. In many cases, it's not cubic inches that wins races, but cubic dollars.

2.) Are you going to drive it on the street more than just to and from the race track? if so, be aware that some suspension setups like torque arms are not so street friendly.

3.) Is it going to be a race car only? if so, a torque arm is the best solution for a corner carver. Drag race cars will use a different setup..

4.) Based on your decision on what you want to do with the car, buy a package or kit from one vendor. That way you know it will all fit together properly and that any strange compatibility bugs have all been worked out. That will greatly reduce the problems getting the vendor to provide support when you need it. Buy a piece here and a part there can bing up some strange handling characteristics that you may not have the time, money or engineering talent to correct.

The torque arm is not the thing that makes it not street friendly, its the dampener and spring choice that people usually put on the car when they get a TA, even with 500lb/375lb coil overs and MM3 Bilstein dampeners my car is really not that bad, and lots of cars have come from the factory with a TA/PHB setup, just look at the F-bodies, and those cars ride great

 

[stangboy]

After reading this thread I am back to square 1. I don't know what suspension setup to go with. i have been reading up on the TA/PHB setup from MM and I was seriously thinking about getting that setup but my car will be mostly street driven and mostly drag raced. I'm not big on carving corners. From what i gathered in my research of the TA/PHB setup is that its a well-rounded setup meaning good for straight-line and cornering. The main thing I'm looking for is a well-rounded setup. I guess I just need input from some people that have driven cars with both(aftermarket not stock) setups and get their pros and cons. With that being said, who can help me?

 

[Shaolin Crane]

After reading this thread I am back to square 1. I don't know what suspension setup to go with. i have been reading up on the TA/PHB setup from MM and I was seriously thinking about getting that setup but my car will be mostly street driven and mostly drag raced. I'm not big on carving corners. From what i gathered in my research of the TA/PHB setup is that its a well-rounded setup meaning good for straight-line and cornering. The main thing I'm looking for is a well-rounded setup. I guess I just need input from some people that have driven cars with both(aftermarket not stock) setups and get their pros and cons. With that being said, who can help me?

I have MM's entire catalog on my car, it handles EXTREMELY well, and as for the straight line i was able to pull a 1.99 60', 8.9 at 80mph on a bone stock engine, ride is a little rough cause of my dampeners but i like it like that. The car is very predicable doing anything, cornering or drag racing, **** when im in the burnout box i dont even need to keep my foot on the brake, i have zero wheel hop, and i can take turns WAY more confidently than i could when stock

 

[jrichker]

The torque arm is not the thing that makes it not street friendly, its the dampener and spring choice that people usually put on the car when they get a TA, even with 500lb/375lb coil overs and MM3 Bilstein dampeners my car is really not that bad, and lots of cars have come from the factory with a TA/PHB setup, just look at the F-bodies, and those cars ride great

What about the clearance issues: the torque arm does hang down a bit. I had a stock suspension 89 Mustang GT that scraped the muffler flanges and pipes going up the ramp of a multi level parking garage. That was with flowmasters and stock tires and wheels, so I know that clearance can be a problem for street driven cars. The pivot for the torque arm and the rear axle mounting bracket definitely look like they hang down further than the flowmasters did on my old 89 GT. Think about speed bumps -they are an even worst problem for cars with parts that hang a little lower than normal. Getting a torque arm equipped Mustang over some of them could be a very annoying and unpleasant experience.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

What about the clearance issues: the torque arm does hang down a bit. I had a stock suspension 89 Mustang GT that scraped the muffler flanges and pipes going up the ramp of a multi level parking garage. That was with flowmasters and stock tires and wheels, so I know that clearance can be a problem for street driven cars. The pivot for the torque arm and the rear axle mounting bracket definitely look like they hang down further than the flowmasters did on my old 89 GT. Think about speed bumps -they are an even worst problem for cars with parts that hang a little lower than normal. Getting a torque arm equipped Mustang over some of them could be a very annoying and unpleasant experience.

The lowest portion of the TA is directly between the wheels, So its impossible to scrape it on speed bumps, the only portion that hangs near the center of the car only hangs about an inch below the subframes, even as lowered as my car is, i have yet to even scrape my subframes, i scraped my long tubes once, and after that it never happened again