Build Thread Want To Blow 5 Years And $50k On A Foxbody? Step By Step Instructions Inside!

[RacEoHolic330]

A very long time ago.

Dislike!

As soon as he writes me into the will I'm having him killed.

Uncharacteristically on topic for me...
What are the primary differences between that clutch and something like the McCleod RST Twin?

First is cost. This clutch is lover $200 cheaper than a Mcleod setup. The second is hopefully performance. Dan over at Clutch Dynamics is a clutch guru to say the least. He studied the Ram and Mcleod clutches and made improvements on them. I don't know enough about the details of clutch design to intelligently talk about them, but Dan basically tweaked how the clutches engage. He simulates the engagement of every clutch he builds to make sure everything is spot on the way he wants it. The third is supporting small American businesses. I'm all for that.

I really like the new "blingless black" engine compartment.

It's ironic looking at it, it looks small in the engine compartment, and mine looks huge. Yours makes twice the power at probably half the boost, compared to me, and your engine will probably live for years, whereas I'll be constantly worried about breaking something, and will probably dial the engine back while you're turning it up.

Guess that's why there are 50 bazillion 5.0 builds, and one TTB six banger going on here.

It really is amazing how small the pushrod V8 is compared to other engines. Makes sense that it's the engine of choice for the Miata crowd.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

So, all the local hydrographics places near me apparently have work up to their eyeballs. Some just don't get back to me and others are 4 weeks out on work. No way am I waiting a month to run this car just so I can have a pretty intake and valve covers. I'll give it a few more days. If I can't make anything work, I'm spraying them with wrinkle black and calling it a day. They can wait until the winter to get coated.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Well, it looks like the Cometic head gaskets are biting me in the ass already. I filled the radiator with coolant a few days ago. I went into the garage to finish up the turbo piping this morning and see a couple drops of coolant on the floor. As luck would have it, the coolant is coming from between the head and block on both sides of the engine. I torqued the 1/2" ARP studs to the same 90lb/85lb that they were torqued before. That's with the ARP lube. Maybe the cometics require more torque? It's also possible the block deck and heads weren't perfectly clean. I thought I cleaned them up well, but who knows. All I know is I'm pissed that I probably need to take the whole top end of this engine apart.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

Well, it looks like the Cometic head gaskets are biting me in the ass already. I filled the radiator with coolant a few days ago. I went into the garage to finish up the turbo piping this morning and see a couple drops of coolant on the floor. As luck would have it, the coolant is coming from between the head and block on both sides of the engine. I torqued the 1/2" ARP studs to the same 90lb/85lb that they were torqued before. That's with the ARP lube. Maybe the cometics require more torque? It's also possible the block deck and heads weren't perfectly clean. I thought I cleaned them up well, but who knows. All I know is I'm ****ed that I probably need to take the whole top end of this engine apart.

Are we living in a Bizarro world reverse mirror image of each other? I just dealt with the exact same thing, and i had to take the head back off as well.

WTF?

Does this mean I'm gonna wash the rings outta the engine now?

 

[RacEoHolic330]

It seems that way, Mike. All I know is that this bizarro world sucks!

 

[mikestang63]

Scott,

I know everyone raves about the cometic gaskets, but I've found unless the surfaces are spot clean and perfect smooth like glass, they may have issues sealing properly. Also as you know the surfaces must be prepped differently than for other head gaskets. I think the recommended RA is like 30?

Also, I read on the Corral a few years back that you must put silicone in the corners. Guys were having problems with oil leaking.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0...55-possible-leak-oil-between-block-head-2.htm

I can tell you that many gaskets, like the Fel-Pro MLS I am running REQUIRE you to put a dab of silicone on each end right where the cork end gaskets (Intake) meet the head gasket. If you do not, there will be nothing for about an 1/8" between the deck and the head. Where this is at and how the gaskets are made will allow oil to leak out of the lifter valley. It states this in the directions and when I read it I thought WTF, after mocking everything up I saw what they were talking about. You can see it above in the first pic that is posted.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

Yea Mike. I think I need to re-check the head surface. I'm not sure if I made them squeaky clean enough. I think I'm also going to coat the gaskets in spray copper. It seems like people have success with doing that, regardless of what cometic's instructions say.

That thread is a few years old, and I know cometic made revisions to the gasket design to make up for that defect. I did make sure to be generous with the silicone where the lower meets the corners of the heads though.

If anyone is bored this week, feel free to come by and take my engine apart for me.

 

[mikestang63]

Yea Mike. I think I need to re-check the head surface. I'm not sure if I made them squeaky clean enough. I think I'm also going to coat the gaskets in spray copper. It seems like people have success with doing that, regardless of what cometic's instructions say.

That thread is a few years old, and I know cometic made revisions to the gasket design to make up for that defect. I did make sure to be generous with the silicone where the lower meets the corners of the heads though.

If anyone is bored this week, feel free to come by and take my engine apart for me.

Maybe you can have the heads shaved ever so slightly just to clean them up? Not trying to be a smart ass in any way, any reason your not going with a regular HG or didn't want to O ring the heads?

Sucks man. Sorry.

 

[hoopty5.0]

I had to do this with the 427 I had a while back. Same issues, silicone fixed it.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

No smartass-ness taken, Mike. I got unanimous opinions from 3 different engine builders and my tuner that cometics were the way to go for my setup. I had no reason to think otherwise besides from some horror stories online about sealing issues, but that was before cometic made changes to known issues on their ford gaskets.

I'll clean the block deck real well with acetone and double check the heads and make sure they're perfect. Had I used cometics from the very beginning, I may not have these issues. The graphite gaskets probably did put small pits in the heads, so I'm hoping that's part of the issue. Fixing that along with some silicone should get me where I need to be. I hope.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

No smartass-ness taken, Mike. I got unanimous opinions from 3 different engine builders and my tuner that cometics were the way to go for my setup. I had no reason to think otherwise besides from some horror stories online about sealing issues, but that was before cometic made changes to known issues on their ford gaskets.

I'll clean the block deck real well with acetone and double check the heads and make sure they're perfect. Had I used cometics from the very beginning, I may not have these issues. The graphite gaskets probably did put small pits in the heads, so I'm hoping that's part of the issue. Fixing that along with some silicone should get me where I need to be. I hope.

If you've been following me (like I do you), I wrestled w/ a similar issue after having to tear down the monsters' engine to seal my stupid HG. I thought I wanted a MLS gasket, (and could've bought one from China) but after reading that even they had their own fair share of sealing issues, requiring a mirror like head/block surface finish, I stayed w/ the copper.
As expensive as it was to have a copper HG built for the engine, I could at least take solace in the knowledge that #1. I could boost the engine to internal part failure, before HG failure (not one of your problems), and #2 I could reuse the gasket after I throw a rod outta the engine from point #1.

Now that you've compressed the Cometic, can it be re-used?

If you can, I have a one word suggestion for you.

Hylomar.

 

[89oem]

nice to see it coming back together Scott, on the clutch I went with the 11" centerforce dual friction, has full coverage organic pressure plate side and carbon composite puck on the flywheel side, it has the springs and suppose to be best of both worlds - easy engage and slip with strong hold for higher power, kinda leery of the weights but didnt find any real negatives about them..... Looked at the dual disc but went this way.

on another note, did you figure out the front wheel misalignment with mm kmember when you first put on your fenders? Im worried mines gonna be off (no reason, just since I saw how yours looked...)

 

[RacEoHolic330]

If you've been following me (like I do you), I wrestled w/ a similar issue after having to tear down the monsters' engine to seal my stupid HG. I thought I wanted a MLS gasket, (and could've bought one from China) but after reading that even they had their own fair share of sealing issues, requiring a mirror like head/block surface finish, I stayed w/ the copper.
As expensive as it was to have a copper HG built for the engine, I could at least take solace in the knowledge that #1. I could boost the engine to internal part failure, before HG failure (not one of your problems), and #2 I could reuse the gasket after I throw a rod outta the engine from point #1.

Now that you've compressed the Cometic, can it be re-used?

If you can, I have a one word suggestion for you.

Hylomar.

I have been following your gasket crusade. I know you feel my pain with this whole ordeal. The cometics can be re-used, up to 3 times apparently. Most like to spray the gasket with sealer when re-using them. I'm probably going to do that anyway. Part of me wants to throw these gaskets in the trash and go with something else, but the other part of me wants to make them work because the buggers cost almost $200.

nice to see it coming back together Scott, on the clutch I went with the 11" centerforce dual friction, has full coverage organic pressure plate side and carbon composite puck on the flywheel side, it has the springs and suppose to be best of both worlds - easy engage and slip with strong hold for higher power, kinda leery of the weights but didnt find any real negatives about them..... Looked at the dual disc but went this way.

on another note, did you figure out the front wheel misalignment with mm kmember when you first put on your fenders? Im worried mines gonna be off (no reason, just since I saw how yours looked...)

I've heard good things about those clutches. Should work out good for you. I didn't come to much conclusion about the k-member alignement. The k-member is square to the frame, but the driver side does sit closer to the fender about 1/4". I've still yet to get the car professionally aligned.

 

[84Ttop]

Now that you've compressed the Cometic, can it be re-used?

Absolutely, I wouldn't hesitate at all to re use a set of MLS gaskets so long as they aren't jacked up from copious amounts of boost and extreme engine temps.

I would consult your engine builder about the torque on those as well, 90 ft/lb seems a bit on the low side. I know its a bit of a different story but my heads are torqued to 140 ft/lbs (not that I recommend this for yours).

How much fluid has leaked out of the corners? Any sign of it in the oil? If the oil still looks good, I would likely heat cycle the motor before tearing it back down.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

My engine builder also said that 90 seems low. I went off the original spec sheet from my previous engine builder, because the 1/2" studs stayed the same. Seems like ARP wants 110 ft-lbs though.

Very small amounts leaked out. Just enough to run down the block and put a few drops on the floor. This is over the course of a week. I didn't notice anything in the oil. I also stuck a tie wrap down cylinders 1 and 4 and didn't get any signs of coolant.

Think it's safe to torque the heads down to 110 lbs and hope for the best?

 

[89oem]

Maybe thats it, the alignment. Ill know in the next couple weeks I guess, its at the body shop now.

 

[mikestang63]

My engine builder also said that 90 seems low. I went off the original spec sheet from my previous engine builder, because the 1/2" studs stayed the same. Seems like ARP wants 110 ft-lbs though.

Very small amounts leaked out. Just enough to run down the block and put a few drops on the floor. This is over the course of a week. I didn't notice anything in the oil. I also stuck a tie wrap down cylinders 1 and 4 and didn't get any signs of coolant.

Think it's safe to torque the heads down to 110 lbs and hope for the best?

If you put the torque wrench on the head bolts, have they backed off from 90? I'd try it @ 110 and see if that works. Worst case you are pulling them off anyway?

 

[84Ttop]

My engine builder also said that 90 seems low. I went off the original spec sheet from my previous engine builder, because the 1/2" studs stayed the same. Seems like ARP wants 110 ft-lbs though.

Very small amounts leaked out. Just enough to run down the block and put a few drops on the floor. This is over the course of a week. I didn't notice anything in the oil. I also stuck a tie wrap down cylinders 1 and 4 and didn't get any signs of coolant.

Think it's safe to torque the heads down to 110 lbs and hope for the best?

Personally, If it was my motor, I would heat cycle the thing as is. You'll need to re torque the heads after this anyway and I'm hoping you won't be doing burnouts or wot passes down the block when breaking the new motor in . Once the motor cools and you re torque the heads, loosen the head studs one at a time 1/4 turn and pull them right up to 110 ft/lbs and you should be fine. No body I know like re torquing heads, me included... It is a necessity though.

 

[RacEoHolic330]

You're not the first to recommend a re-torque, but cometic insists on not re-torquing the heads. They also insist on no spray rtv either, but many people claim it's necessary. It's amazing how much the mileage varies when it comes to these gaskets.

Let me ask you, Nick. Why not torque to 110 now? I'm asking out of pure laziness because I only have the headers bolted up to the heads, and not the rest of the turbo kit. It wouldn't be a big deal to pull the valve covers and headers to tighten things down more. I'm just concerned that if I'm getting a water leak with just gravity, I'll have more issues when the cooling system is pressurized. I can re-torque and pressure test the cooling system to see how it does before firing the car up.

 

[84Ttop]

You're not the first to recommend a re-torque, but cometic insists on not re-torquing the heads. They also insist on no spray rtv either, but many people claim it's necessary. It's amazing how much the mileage varies when it comes to these gaskets.

Let me ask you, Nick. Why not torque to 110 now? I'm asking out of pure laziness because I only have the headers bolted up to the heads, and not the rest of the turbo kit. It wouldn't be a big deal to pull the valve covers and headers to tighten things down more. I'm just concerned that if I'm getting a water leak with just gravity, I'll have more issues when the cooling system is pressurized. I can re-torque and pressure test the cooling system to see how it does before firing the car up.

It's not uncommon for those gaskets to seep a small amount of liquid when first installed. For that matter, most motors that I've seen that don't have a freshly decked block and freshly decked heads will seep a small amount. Heat cycling the motor will likely stop the leak right off the bat. You'll actually see a greater clamping force on the heads when they are hot and the aluminum expands against the steel studs and block.

The only reason to not re torque them now is that I would like to see you do this after you heat cycle the motor. It certainly won't hurt anything to do this now, just cost you a little more time. I know that it is a huge pain in the a$$ but completely necessary in my book. I have to go as far as removing my headers and shaft rockers completely to get to all of my head studs and that really sucks! Doesn't matter how many times I do it, it sucks the same every time.