Progress Thread Nicholase "lights out" build- TKX install

[gkomo]

Man what a hassle!

It’s so frustrating (and I ain’t even the owner) that you knocked it out of the park on all your other upgrades/restorations and this is what’s stopping you from getting to the finish line.

We all miss the nicholase over the top attention to detail and thorough updates.

 

[nicholase]

Lol. I'll be back. It's usually pretty cold up here in Buffalo this time of the year but this winter has been crazy cold. My gym is in the garage so I've been getting out there 4-5 days a week for that. But the idea of crawling around on the floor is not enticing! So I'm just gonna wait and hit it all at once in the spring rather than in short spurts.

Yeah, ProM racing really boned me. Because of all the original delays, and then missing parts I lost all last summer. I needed it inspected but couldnt do that until I had the install done becasue my CEL was on due to the smog delete (running the factory computer). Now I'll need to re register it but can't do that until it's inspected. So I'm hopeful to at least drive it in for a sticker w/ the ProM if we get a nice stretch of weather, even if it's not running great. At least the CEL is off so I should habe any issues. They don't look any further than that due to the age of it.

Even if ProM ever did open back up I'd strongly caution using them for anything. I'm 90% sure I'm going to pull it all out and install the Holley. But we'll see. I'm willing to give it a little more effort, but I'm feeling pretty "anti-ProMite" at the moment

 

[bird_dog0347]

Lol. I'll be back. It's usually pretty cold up here in Buffalo this time of the year but this winter has been crazy cold. My gym is in the garage so I've been getting out there 4-5 days a week for that. But the idea of crawling around on the floor is not enticing! So I'm just gonna wait and hit it all at once in the spring rather than in short spurts.

Yeah, ProM racing really boned me. Because of all the original delays, and then missing parts I lost all last summer. I needed it inspected but couldnt do that until I had the install done becasue my CEL was on due to the smog delete (running the factory computer). Now I'll need to re register it but can't do that until it's inspected. So I'm hopeful to at least drive it in for a sticker w/ the ProM if we get a nice stretch of weather, even if it's not running great. At least the CEL is off so I should habe any issues. They don't look any further than that due to the age of it.

Even if ProM ever did open back up I'd strongly caution using them for anything. I'm 90% sure I'm going to pull it all out and install the Holley. But we'll see. I'm willing to give it a little more effort, but I'm feeling pretty "anti-ProMite" at the moment

That's a bummer to hear, but at this point I'd go Holley if it were me, no point in wasting any more time on the Pro M stuff IMO.

 

[from6to8]

Hey guys. Been a while. I haven't been doing much on the car. It's winter here and an unusually cold one. Pretty soon the weather will break and I'll get back at it.

Regarding the ProM install, I left off with an issue where the wideband guage was reading different than the computer. The way this is set up a wideband sensor is connected to the controller. Then the controller sends the reading to the guage display and also an output signal to the computer. The computer needs to be calibrated to this reading because all wideband controllers have a slightly different 1-5v slope. When my guage reads 14.7, the computer is reading lean. If I richen up the tune to get the reading in the computer correct, then the guage reads rich. It also exhibits all the signs of running rich. So i believe the guage is displaying the correct info.

Just to be sure, I've tried several new controllers, wideband sensors, and replaced the wiring several times.

When I ordered the ProM kit I asked Chris Richards to set the computer up for the widebands I was using. This is non user adjustable. Only ProM can access that area of the tune and change it. I asked him several times if he could confirm the calibration and he won't. I asked if he could provide what was entered in the computer so I could adjust the calibration in the wideband controller (which i can access and adjust) but he won't. He just kept saying things like i have a vacuum leak, or other engine problem and wouldn't give me the info I was asking for. I don’t understand the reasoning here. Even if I did have a vacuum leak the engine management and wideband guage should match and both be lean. The fact they are both giving different reading at the same time is pretty obvious something isn't calibrated correctly.

It doesn't much matter. They are officially out of business now and unavailable to contact.

So when I get back to it I'll see if I can play around with the calibration of the widebamd controller and match it. I have a few ideas. Or just order a Holley TermX.

One way or the other it's gonna be tearing up the streets this summer!

sounds good. I'll be updating my post sometime this week as I finally got mine started and took it to the tuner last Thursday. For my build that's in process or kind of as the guy in Tx is pretty busy and just recently said looks like the stock block is going to be fine to use, for that build I have to decide which way I want to go. It's supposed to be a 331 build but I might want to put a blower on it too. I talked to my tuner the other day after he did my car and I was already kinda thinking about going Holley with one of my future setups but he might have convinced me to do it with the current build. I probably won't do the instrument cluster though but just the MF Kustoms plug and play harness and let him tune it. I have to do more research on what all I'll need as I won't need a mass air meter. I haven't bought a meter for the 331 build but had on the list to get a 96-01 80 mm from a mustang salvage yard.

 

[from6to8]

Lol. I'll be back. It's usually pretty cold up here in Buffalo this time of the year but this winter has been crazy cold. My gym is in the garage so I've been getting out there 4-5 days a week for that. But the idea of crawling around on the floor is not enticing! So I'm just gonna wait and hit it all at once in the spring rather than in short spurts.

Yeah, ProM racing really boned me. Because of all the original delays, and then missing parts I lost all last summer. I needed it inspected but couldnt do that until I had the install done becasue my CEL was on due to the smog delete (running the factory computer). Now I'll need to re register it but can't do that until it's inspected. So I'm hopeful to at least drive it in for a sticker w/ the ProM if we get a nice stretch of weather, even if it's not running great. At least the CEL is off so I should habe any issues. They don't look any further than that due to the age of it.

Even if ProM ever did open back up I'd strongly caution using them for anything. I'm 90% sure I'm going to pull it all out and install the Holley. But we'll see. I'm willing to give it a little more effort, but I'm feeling pretty "anti-ProMite" at the moment

that's why I went with an Sct meter for the SC install on the 94.

If I go with Holley for future builds or at least the next build I won't have to worry about meters. I kinda like the idea of not having to worry about a meter and eliminating having to have one.....

 

[Flyboy60]

Man that a lot to take, I am not the car owner and I am angry.

 

[Trogdor]

Could the wideband issue be due to a ground offset?

I know that you have probably posted it, but what wideband are you using? If I remember correctly, the Innovate widebands allow you to program the output voltage, so that may be a backwards way of figuring out what wideband transfer function was programmed in the computer.

 

[nicholase]

Could the wideband issue be due to a ground offset?

I believe you're talking about grounding the wideband controller and PCM at different points which can create an ground offset issue? In this case the PCM sends power and ground to the wideband controller. So there shouldn't any issue like that.

I know that you have probably posted it, but what wideband are you using?

Zeitronix ZT2.

If I remember correctly, the Innovate widebands allow you to program the output voltage, so that may be a backwards way of figuring out what wideband transfer function was programmed in the computer.

The Zeitronix is similar. I have the software to adjust it. Ideally I'd know what value was entered in the PCM so I could match it. But yeah, that's where my head is at too. The first thing I'll do when it warms up outside is see if I can play around with the Zeitronix software and adjust the 1-5v slope on that end. It is a clunky backwards way like you said.

It might be difficult or impossible to do without knowing what's entered in the computer. The top range values can be changed ie .0v=9.5 AFR and 5v=19.5 AFR. They can be adjusted at the top and bottom. Then the slope between them can be made linear, or weighted. So I think it's just not going to be accurate guessing. But I'm gonna try, so we'll see.

 

[nicholase]

We have a little stretch of decent weather. Around 40 and rain today. Tomorrow looks dry and low 50's. So that's gonna be the day to get it out of the garage and see what's up with this ProM EFI.

Today I pulled the cover off and got it road ready. I had to reassemble my PCV system. I had it all off and capped while checking for vacuum leaks. I put the passenger seat back in and gave everything a good look over. I give it two thumbs up for the road. I still have the console out and some trim not put back. Gonna hold off on all that until I see what direction this goes.

I gave the key a twist. It spun over for about 3 seconds and fired right up. Idles lile a champ. I think I need to make a few laps around the block and better evaluate what's going on here. Tomorrow should be the day.

If it wasn't raining today I'd go for it. But rain on freshly salted roads isn't a good idea. Hopefully it washes most of it off and is dry tomorrow.

Gotta say, it was nice hearing it start up so quick and idle so nice. Its been under a cover and on the charger since the beginning of December. I half expected issues getting it running.

 

[nickyb]

Good to hear.

 

[nicholase]

Well, I got it out today as planned. The roads dried up by lunch time. I did a few laps around the block with the widebands pulled up on the computer and they were matching the guage. So I'm not sure why I was seeing different results a few months ago. I put about 25 miles on it over 3 hours between stopping to figure stuff out, make adjustments and driving some more. Overall it ran very well. Smooth. I did experience some stalling while coasting in neutral at speed, which I may or may have not sorted.

 

[gkomo]

No pictures?? Been too long

 

[nicholase]

No pictures?? Been too long

Lol. I probably won't be covering every step of the tuning. At some point I'll come to a conclusion on whether or not it's going to work, or if I have to replace it with something else. While it needs some work and is far from being finished, I think my results from yesterday's drive are promising. I'm at least in a spot where I can drive it, and get it inspected. I can mess around wIth fine tuning it at my leisure. This will probably be ongoing for quite a while.



So.... I'll reassemble the interior trim and get it off the garage floor and back in the car. I have a new radio to install, so I'll post up some action shots of that Getting it running well is obviously the priority, but I need to be opportunistic. To install the radio the way I want the center console needs to be out. It's out right now. So now is as good of a time as any I suppose.

 

[gkomo]

Nice, those real retro head units are sweet.

 

[nicholase]

Its a Blaupunkt Frankfurt. It looks like a tape deck

But the little flapper opens up for USB and other connectivity. It's also Bluetooth which is the main reason to replace the factory one.

I don't want to use the typical mounting kit with exposed screws. So I'm going to make some brackets and do a little welding. I'm going to retain the little cubby, I have my FP guage mounted in it. The original radio and cubby don't sit flush with the console. Sits like this:

To get the new radio and cubby to look seamless the cubby needs to be recessed into the console a little. I used a file and sized the cubby so it sits into the console like this:

This is it with the radio sleeve slipped in. The bottom of the radio sleeve tucks nicely over the cubbys top lip. This is why I wanted to recess the cubby.

I'm going to make these two peices one peice much like the factory set up. That way it will all pull out for good access to my wideband controller and other wiring behind it. I have some parts coming for that, so I'll cover that next time.


A little test fit. It will look like this when complete. I'll have to pick up some trim black to repaint the black portion of the cemter console, its got some scratches.

Did a little wiring. Soldered and shrink wrapped

Then some wire loom

The display color can be customized to any shade. You can blend green and blue together to really dial it in. I'll match the green of the factory dash. This looks pretty close in person.

It sounds good! I have nice speakers in the dash, doors, and rear, so this really helped.

 

[gkomo]

As always, top notch work!

 

[91AOD5.0LX]

Your work is always impeccable as well as all your update details!

 

[2000xp8]

I like that stereo, hadn't seen that one before, when I bought the sqr bremen 46 it would have been tough to choose between the two. Appears blaupunkt has found a market for $500 retro stereos.
While costly, I think the extra expense is worth it.

 

[nicholase]

I like that stereo, hadn't seen that one before, when I bought the sqr bremen 46 it would have been tough to choose between the two. Appears blaupunkt has found a market for $500 retro stereos.
While costly, I think the extra expense is worth it.

Yeah, they have 3 different style reto stereos now. All pretty much the same just w/ slightly different cosmetics - Bremen, Frankfurt, Hamburg. Pioneer was also supposed to be coming out with one this past October but I've never found it available for sale. It was tough deciding between them all.

I wanted something that didn't look out of place becasue my car is basically stock looking. I think it really blends in nicely. Its really slick how you can get the backlighting totally matching the factory color. Expensive, but I agree, worth it.

 

[2000xp8]

How is it to operate?
I find that that if you don't use the car often, I have to use a series of educated guesses to figure out how to work it.
The red and green was enough for me in the Bremen model, it was close enough to the dash.
I find that the biggest bonus was how good the phone calls were on it with the remote mounted mic, how people did not know i was in the mustang with the window open, i have no clue.
I have a dakota digital RTX (the one that looks factory) cluster to go in, luckily that does dimming and has a big color pallet.