02 stang w/ p1sc questions

Scorcher2005 · Jul 16, 2006

well, i test drove this 02 stang w/ a procharger p1sc (8lb pulley), 3 core intercooler, 42lb injectors, 3.73 gears, mac catback, pro 5.0 shifter, and eibach springs (otherwise stock tb, plenum, pullies, headers, midpipe, maf). He said the owner before him dyno tuned it and got around 340 rwhp. He has gone to the track once and ran a low 14, then a high 13, then a 13.4 by playing w/ tire pressure of the 315 rears. I asked if he had bothered icing the intake and such but he said no. Others told him it should be running around a 13 flat. I'd think faster, like 12.5? He also said he most likely lacks some skill. When i test drove it it sorda felt slow...maybe cuz im used to driving my sti i was pretty much idleing in 1st and nailed it and it started roating the tires after bout 3k rpms and i shifted into second around 5600 rpm where it continued to roast them a bit until i let off. i just dont know, i guess im trying to ask if this seems like it is as fast as it should be and worth the $15,900 id be paying. And how much power would be able to be picked up with the addition of an x pipe, tb, plenum and retune? Possibly some blower cams too.

hotmustang331 · Jul 16, 2006

It blew the tires off 1st and 2nd and it felt slow? LOL. Must be the fact that the STI = 0 spin.

Anywho, 340RWHP seems low...but most likely means that it is a very safe tune, probably a base one supplied with the SC.

With an X pipe and the above mentioned mods....along with a retune (dont go WOT once you do that stuff, until its dynotuned) then it will probably make 390+ RWHP. Should be an easy 12 second car if you can drive....definatly wast an STI by trapping 114+ on pump gas.

Scorcher2005 · Jul 16, 2006

well, if i dump the clutch around 5k+ rpms on the sti it spins the tires for about 3-5 seconds and chirps a bit on the 1-2 shift. I havent taken m sti to the track but i usually read 13.4-13.6 and with cobb stage 2 (downpipe and acessport tuner) boosts engine hp to 350 allowing it to run a 12.7-12.9. So id be dissapointed with a car that couldnt keep up to that.

What would it take to make 450rwhp w/ this car on pump gas (92 octane). Seeing how thats around the max of stock blower cobras, id like to keep up.

thomas91169 · Jul 17, 2006

Scorcher2005 said:
well, if i dump the clutch around 5k+ rpms on the sti it spins the tires for about 3-5 seconds and chirps a bit on the 1-2 shift. I havent taken m sti to the track but i usually read 13.4-13.6 and with cobb stage 2 (downpipe and acessport tuner) boosts engine hp to 350 allowing it to run a 12.7-12.9. So id be dissapointed with a car that couldnt keep up to that.

^^^doubtful. my WRX buddy sitting next to me just spit out his soda and laughed at you.

the mustang would walk all over your STi 3rd gear and up once its tuned right. then again youre comparing a mid-model car to the top line model, you wanna compare apples to apples go run a cobra. that setup in the mustang is a mid to low 13 second capible setup as it rests now. with additional support it will get into 12's spinning 1st and 2nd. with some 315 dr's on those DD rims, mid to low 12's are going to be easily attainable. plus youre at a mere 8psi, with the right tuning(no knock, good timing) you can run 11psi, especially since you stated it has the 3core IC. you still have other things to free up flow like intake, cams, heads, headers, etc.

before you run your mouth, consider the sources. i am on NABR, Nasioc, I-club, subydude, mainly cause i have to double check things when my buddy decides to do **** to his car(06 wrx), as well as an avid DSMer and know more things about an Evo than most of their drivers. we just 20g'd it yesterday and had it tuned by Mark at Gruppe-S. i love almost every car, but even i know cars have their "ego boosting" limits.

hotmustang331 · Jul 17, 2006

thomas91169 said:
plus youre at a mere 8psi, with the right tuning(no knock, good timing) you can run 11psi, especially since you stated it has the 3core IC. .

Yea if you want to increase the chance of the bottom end letting go. 8 PSI is about all you want to go...with all the boltons (LTs included) 8PSI can push you to the "limit" of 420RWHP. I wouldnt up anymore than that....you CAN, but you start running into reliability issues...and you would need to get a new fuel pump setup for sure. That will run you into slot of little things. These engines arent made to make alot of powa. But this is PERSONAL opinion going on how Tim @ MPH tunes his cars....and since he has never lost an engine, I usually follow what he reccomends, thats all.

Im going to be running 8PSI, but since I have cams....thats like running 10-11PSI on a stock cammed engine. SO I really dont have a choice as to what RWHP ill be making....im counting on Tims tune and im going to have it VERY VERY safe. Although I wouldnt reccomend what im doing at all as I have 4Gs in the bank under the account name "Forged engine/car pay off" if something happens before I pay the stang off.

Pennywise2 · Jul 17, 2006

Scorcher2005 said:
well, if i dump the clutch around 5k+ rpms on the sti it spins the tires for about 3-5 seconds and chirps a bit on the 1-2 shift. I havent taken m sti to the track but i usually read 13.4-13.6 and with cobb stage 2 (downpipe and acessport tuner) boosts engine hp to 350 allowing it to run a 12.7-12.9. So id be dissapointed with a car that couldnt keep up to that.

What would it take to make 450rwhp w/ this car on pump gas (92 octane). Seeing how thats around the max of stock blower cobras, id like to keep up.

I am not going to share my info and start a pissing contest,but I think you should keep your STI I know I would.

thomas91169 · Jul 17, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
Yea if you want to increase the chance of the bottom end letting go. 8 PSI is about all you want to go...with all the boltons (LTs included) 8PSI can push you to the "limit" of 420RWHP. I wouldnt up anymore than that....you CAN, but you start running into reliability issues...

if there is no knock/predet at 8psi and timing is good and the fuel system still has headroom, i dont see why 10-11psi cant be played with. if its a question about the strenght of the rotating assembly, ive seen Turbo'd V6 guys running 12psi for 2 years now on the same motor, you mean to tell me the V6 motor can handle more airflow and stress than a sohc 4.6? im no fan of our rotating assembly, but i think it can handle more than what people think.

its all in the tune and what numbers you are willing to get. of course, if you have a lead foot and plan on going WOT at every light, then yeah, any setup is going to have reliability issues. if you drive the car normal and get on it maybe once a day and dont beat the **** out of it, i dont see why it cant be realible.

Pennywise2 said:
I am not going to share my info and start a pissing contest,but I think you should keep your STI I know I would.

im actually going to agree with this as well. they are nice cars, and a good platform to get some good times. alot of potential for a cheap price, that 20g setup was around $1500 after all was said and done(turbo, tmic, injectors, fp, tune), you cant really go from 160whp to 260whp(a 100hp, 1/3 power gain) in less money unless you use nitrous.

i also like the Legacy GT's, but those are way $$$$$.

Scorcher2005 · Jul 17, 2006

thomas - you dont seem to grasp the concept that i have a sti, not a wrx. sti > wrx. Upgraded engine, suspension, braking. They put down 240 hp at the wheels, which is upped to around 280 w/ cobb stage 2. And your buddy just wasted soda by spitting it out. And im getting rid of the STI due to it being too much money for payments, insurance, and modding.

hotmustang331 · Jul 17, 2006

thomas91169 said:
if there is no knock/predet at 8psi and timing is good and the fuel system still has headroom, i dont see why 10-11psi cant be played with. if its a question about the strenght of the rotating assembly, ive seen Turbo'd V6 guys running 12psi for 2 years now on the same motor, you mean to tell me the V6 motor can handle more airflow and stress than a sohc 4.6? im no fan of our rotating assembly, but i think it can handle more than what people think.

its all in the tune and what numbers you are willing to get. of course, if you have a lead foot and plan on going WOT at every light, then yeah, any setup is going to have reliability issues. if you drive the car normal and get on it maybe once a day and dont beat the **** out of it, i dont see why it cant be realible.

Oh 11PSI can be played with, but you will be putting down like 450RWHP with all those boltons he wants. The problem is that the more HP you make, the more strain it is on the WEAK pressed togethor rods and super crappy pistions. Now if you drive it easy, sure 450 could last forever....but if you want something where you can beat on it like a rental, I would stay @ 8PSI.

There is one guy that has run 480RWHP for 2 years and now has been running 530RWHP for 1 year...all with a stock GT engine. Sure it will hold if your easy on it and have a sick tune...but its not going to last long if your wailing on it. I knew a guy that run 11PSI on a procharger...thing burned a piston in about 3 months.
I have talked to other guys that had the same results with the prochargers...said they had issues with it burning pistons when they upped the boost, and knew of other people where the same thing happened.

SOOO what im saying is that it would be MUCH safer to keep it @ 8PSI...how much power does he need anyways .

As far as the V6s go, I believe the V6s have forged pistons...rods arent great though. But also remember that PSI is a measure of resistence...I doubt the V6s have a 75MM throttle body like we can...everything is smaller on them so PSI has to go up to get the same amount of air in.

Scorcher2005 · Jul 17, 2006

i need a lot of powa...like i said, enough to keep up w/ bolt on cobras would be nice.

hotmustang331 · Jul 17, 2006

420RWHP @ 3400#s = adverage 03-04 cobra @ 440RWHP and 3700#.

DBMSTNG · Jul 17, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
Yea if you want to increase the chance of the bottom end letting go. 8 PSI is about all you want to go...

it's the cylinder pressure that kills engines, not boost pressure. there's a difference. you can run 12psi with little timing running 380rwhp and be just as safe as making 380rwhp with 8psi.

DBMSTNG · Jul 17, 2006

thomas91169 said:
if there is no knock/predet at 8psi and timing is good and the fuel system still has headroom, i dont see why 10-11psi cant be played with. if its a question about the strenght of the rotating assembly, ive seen Turbo'd V6 guys running 12psi for 2 years now on the same motor, you mean to tell me the V6 motor can handle more airflow and stress than a sohc 4.6? im no fan of our rotating assembly, but i think it can handle more than what people think.

1st of all, the V6 has more bore, less stroke than the 4.6L. you're not exactly comparing apples to apples. also, a 3.8L V6 running 12psi doesn't necessarily flow a larger volume of air than a 4.6L at 8psi. next, turbos don't produce parasitic drag on the crankshaft. that's less stress.

Pennywise2 · Jul 17, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
1st of all, the V6 has more bore, less stroke than the 4.6L. you're not exactly comparing apples to apples. also, a 3.8L V6 running 12psi doesn't necessarily flow a larger volume of air than a 4.6L at 8psi. next, turbos don't produce parasitic drag on the crankshaft. that's less stress.

I agree. No parasitic drag on the crankshaft but, in turn alot
more heat that is the downfall.

hotmustang331 · Jul 17, 2006

DBMSTNG said:
it's the cylinder pressure that kills engines, not boost pressure. there's a difference. you can run 12psi with little timing running 380rwhp and be just as safe as making 380rwhp with 8psi.

But why would you do that? 12 PSI= more heat than 8PSI(less relaible)...belt wear will go up, S/C life will go down as it will be spinning harder. Run the least amount you can and raise the effeciency of your engine, dont boost the crap out of it LOL. The cheaper route isnt always the best route.

BennyBlown2v · Jul 17, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
But why would you do that? 12 PSI= more heat than 8PSI(less relaible)...belt wear will go up, S/C life will go down as it will be spinning harder. Run the least amount you can and raise the effeciency of your engine, dont boost the crap out of it LOL. The cheaper route isnt always the best route.

More boost down low! Makes the car feel like ZOOM But yeah, 12psi can be safe on a stock block.

hotmustang331 · Jul 18, 2006

^ LOL true...but if you guys want to blow your engines up, then go ahead. Dont say I didnt warn you ...I know of too many people that have got greedy and did what you guys are suggesting....and they dont have their stock short blocks in the cars right now.

Pennywise2 · Jul 18, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
^ LOL true...but if you guys want to blow your engines up, then go ahead. Dont say I didnt warn you ...I know of too many people that have got greedy and did what you guys are suggesting....and they dont have their stock short blocks in the cars right now.

12 psi. on a stock short block sounds like running on barrowed
time to me.Just a matter of time before kaabooommmmmm!
:SNSign:

turbogt · Jul 18, 2006

ITS ALL IN THE TUNE!!!!!!!!!

turbogt · Jul 18, 2006

But, with a stock longblock, there is no safety margin... You detonate once and you're done..

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