'04 auto GT question

KBExperience

KBExperience

Active Member
Jun 21, 2009
466
1
49
Houston
#1
Hey guys,

Last night, i raced a buddy of mine out in the middle of nowhere and i beat him, but i have a question. I have an 04 GT auto, and his is a 99 GT 5sp, After we both got traction, our cars accellerated at the same rate, the only reason i beat him was because i have newer tires on the back and i had a full tank of gas to weigh me down, while he was empty, so my tires grabbed the road first and that put me about 15 ft in front of him, and up until 100 mph he was still 15 ft behind me, we have all the same mods exept i have an xpipe and a BBK 70mm tb, which car should be faster? the stick or the auto? and what is my top speed on the auto? i know its much more than 100, but where does it top out? :shrug:

thanks guys
 
#2
most people would say the 5-speed is faster, but that assumes the person driving the 5-speed knows what they are doing. There's less power lost through the trans with the manual, but the auto will never miss a shift, won't shift early or late, and shifts fewer times and without stopping the flow of power to the wheels.

Most people shift early when they street race because they think hitting redline is bad for the car or they're not watching the tach. Also, since you need to disengage the clutch to shift a manual, you spend some time not accelerating. Autos don't have these problems, so they are more consistent and can be faster than someone who isn't on top of the game with a manual.

I think typically an auto runs about 0.5 secs. slower than a well-driven stick in a quarter mile when stock. But one can easily give up a half second shifting a manual slowly or too early or bumping the rev limiter. And obviously traction plays a huge part in who wins or loses. Not to mention mods like free flowing cats.

A stock 99-04 GT should hit close to 150mph top end. Things like hood scoops and bigger side scoops probably mean a later GT will not have as high a top end as say a '99 that had small side scoops and no hood scoop. Pulls pretty good 'til about 130-ish. Not that I've done it or anything.
 
#3
The 5 speed needs a driver mod.

I'm not the worlds greatest driver but hold my own quite well. A good friend of mine had a 99 no option gt with full bolt ons (minus long tubes) and a tune. 4.10 gears as well with an auto. I had an 04 gt premium (full options leather car) with only 4.30 gears.... I WALKED all over him. Now when I got my full mods I was well over .5 seconds ahead of him at the track. I ran 13.70's to his 14.40's.
 
#4
As said, a well driven manual should be quicker. It can be very tricky to launch a manual, especially when you haven't been on that particular piece of road before. I can launch well at the track, but on the street, it's very difficult to guess how much traction is there, and it's bog or spin.
I've beaten lots of PI cars just by driving the nuts off my poor NPI. :D It's amazing what you can beat when the competition can't drive. ;)
 
#5
I raced my friend in my old 99 5 speed and he was in a 03 auto. We took off about even and I slowly pulled away up to about 100. He was mad :D. The top speed if i can remember is about 143 for the auto and stick if they both came with 17" wheels. My 99 came with 16" and its top speed was slower. The top speed limiter is set by what tires it had from the factory.
 
#11
NO, never did I say ALL Auto's were slower. It takes a built auto with a stall etc to make them wake up... Then they are usually just a fast and definitely more consistent. My last fox was a 351 swap with one nasty aod... It was boring to me as I love to shift....

I was merely comparing bolt on car to bolt on car or even stock to stock. Now the 05+ cars the auto's seem to run right there with if not better than the 5 speeds.
 
#14
KBExperience said:
Hey guys,

Last night, i raced a buddy of mine out in the middle of nowhere and i beat him, but i have a question. I have an 04 GT auto, and his is a 99 GT 5sp, After we both got traction, our cars accellerated at the same rate, the only reason i beat him was because i have newer tires on the back and i had a full tank of gas to weigh me down, while he was empty, so my tires grabbed the road first and that put me about 15 ft in front of him, and up until 100 mph he was still 15 ft behind me, we have all the same mods exept i have an xpipe and a BBK 70mm tb, which car should be faster? the stick or the auto? and what is my top speed on the auto? i know its much more than 100, but where does it top out? :shrug:

thanks guys
Click to expand...

Its something about the 04 Autos :D, I ran a best 13.9 at 99 with just Syn oil and an air filter , everything else was bone stock , at that time I would be all over other New Edge 5-speeds like a cheap suit , it was the best when they found out I was driving an Auto !

Not sure about the top speed , fastest I`ve been was around 142 , but it really does not matter which one has the faster top speed , very unsafe , 1/4 mile is all you need !
 
#15
CobraRed_96_GT said:
Lol at thinking an auto is .5 slower in the 1/4 mile. All those professional driver's with auto's, they only have em because they can't drive - right?
Click to expand...

stock for stock, the auto is generally half a second slower in the 1/4. That just means that on average, a good driver in a stick is faster than a good driver in an auto, due to things like the greater drivetrain loss of the auto, the ability to control exactly how much power gets to the wheels with the clutch on the launch, and the slightly lighter weight of the manual trans. Mostly the 5% more power to the wheels.

And fwiw, "professional" drivers pay their way. They drive what works best for what they do, as much as their wallet allows.

On the road course, manuals rule because they give the driver more control and more choices. You won't see many autos on the podium in ALMS. Just like the best bracket racers are autos I'm sure, regardless of how fast they are. Bracket racing isn't about getting there first, as I'm sure you know.

There are strengths to autos, but they lie in bracket racing more than anything else. The reason auto drivers get ragged on for not being able to drive is because it's true from our perspective - driving a manual has a whole lot more to it than driving an auto. It's a different skill set. I don't know anyone who drives a stick that can't drive an auto well, but the opposite is certainly not true - just because you can drive your own auto fast doesn't necessarily mean you know jack about driving a stick well. You could certainly learn, but not in a day and it's not a given.

There is a coordination between your right foot and your left foot and your right hand and your left hand that is not easily learned in one day in a parking lot. The first time you try to brake and downshift and steer coming in too hot to a corner, you figure that out. Hopefully you just back into the ditch slowly and don't hit anything :)

That said, knowing your auto and shift pattern is a skill as well, just not really that hard to pick up if one is motivated. Pat yourself on the back all you want for knowing how to steer with both hands with your foot on the floor, but I know how to balance the gas and clutch as well as how to rev match and when to heel-toe. That's not elitism talking, that's from learning how to drive an auto well and then learning how to drive a stick well. There is a hell of a lot more to driving a manual smoothly, period, end of discussion, that's all folks, please drive through.

No disrespect to anyone driving an auto. That doesn't lessen your worth or make someone a loser. Or automatically mean your car sucks. We drive what we have. Some of us had the freedom to pick and choose, and some of us got stuck with the best of what was available. I'd prefer my car was black instead of white, but circumstances made that choice for me. I don't think that means I'm less evil or something lol. At least it's a stick, I tell myself. Someone out there is running around in a black auto GT, telling themselves "at least it's black, not fairy white" lol.
 
#16
40oz said:
stock for stock, the auto is generally half a second slower in the 1/4. That just means that on average, a good driver in a stick is faster than a good driver in an auto, due to things like the greater drivetrain loss of the auto, the ability to control exactly how much power gets to the wheels with the clutch on the launch, and the slightly lighter weight of the manual trans. Mostly the 5% more power to the wheels.

And fwiw, "professional" drivers pay their way. They drive what works best for what they do, as far as their wallet allows. In bracket racing, autos probably rule because they are more consistent. On the road course, manuals rule because they give the driver more control and more choices. You won't see many autos on the podium in ALMS. Just like the best bracket racers are autos I'm sure, regardless of how fast they are.

There are strengths to autos, but they lie in bracket racing more than anything else. The reason auto drivers get ragged on for not being able to drive is because it's true from our perspective - driving a manual has a whole lot more to it than driving an auto. It's a different skill set. I don't know anyone who drives a stick that can't drive an auto well, but the opposite is certainly not true - just because you can drive your own auto fast doesn't necessarily mean you know jack about driving a stick well. You could certainly learn, but not in a day and it's not a given.

There is a coordination between your right foot and your left foot and your right hand and your left hand that is not easily learned in one day in a parking lot. The first time you try to brake and downshift and steer coming in too hot to a corner, you figure that out. Hopefully you just back into the ditch slowly and don't hit anything :)

That said, knowing your auto and shift pattern is a skill as well, just not really that hard to pick up if one is motivated. Pat yourself on the back all you want for knowing how to steer with both hands with your foot on the floor, but I know how to balance the gas and clutch as well as how to rev match and when to heel-toe. That's not elitism talking, that's from learning how to drive an auto well and then learning how to drive a stick well. There is a hell of a lot more to driving a manual smoothly, period, end of discussion, that's all folks, please drive through.

No disrespect to anyone driving an auto. That doesn't lessen your worth or make someone a loser. Or automatically mean your car sucks. We drive what we have. Some of us had the freedom to pick and choose, and some of us got stuck with the best of what was available. I'd prefer my car was black instead of white, but circumstances made that choice for me. I don't think that means I'm less evil or something lol. At least it's a stick, I tell myself. Someone out there is running around in a black auto GT, telling themselves "at least it's black, not fairy white" lol.
Click to expand...
Good logical insights, good job for not just being a fanboy. But just FYI i daily drive a stick and it would have been cheaper to put in a used T56 then build my 4R like I did - so i wasn't exactly stuck with it.
Nevertheless, i wish I had two fast mustangs - one of each. I rarely hate on the manual, but i do defend the auto. And if a auto is supposed to be half a second slower than my car must have been the only NPI heads/cams GT to see a "13.47" ever.
 
#17
^ I would have been surprised if you didn't know how to drive a stick, just based on your posts.

I think once you mod your auto with a stall or whatever, you can forget that "half second slower" BS. I'd say that only applies to stock for stock. Autos have more strengths than weaknesses in most usage. Little things like being able to shift without stopping power to the wheels, multiplying torque to the wheels while the converter slips, never missing shifts, etc. Being able to drive fast with one arm and one leg lol. (don't laugh, it could happen to you :) )

Simple things like knowing how and when your auto shifts can negate any advantage IMHO, even on a casual track day road course. Hell, just having better tires and knowing how to hold the brakes and build rpms on the launch will give an advantage over a blowhard with a stick and worn Falken's :) The perception that a monkey could drive an auto to win is widespread but wrong, IMHO.

Some people slag anyone who has a different goal or situation than their own. That's not right, to my mind.
 
#18
40oz said:
stock for stock, the auto is generally half a second slower in the 1/4. That just means that on average, a good driver in a stick is faster than a good driver in an auto, due to things like the greater drivetrain loss of the auto, the ability to control exactly how much power gets to the wheels with the clutch on the launch, and the slightly lighter weight of the manual trans. Mostly the 5% more power to the wheels.

And fwiw, "professional" drivers pay their way. They drive what works best for what they do, as much as their wallet allows.

On the road course, manuals rule because they give the driver more control and more choices. You won't see many autos on the podium in ALMS. Just like the best bracket racers are autos I'm sure, regardless of how fast they are. Bracket racing isn't about getting there first, as I'm sure you know.

There are strengths to autos, but they lie in bracket racing more than anything else. The reason auto drivers get ragged on for not being able to drive is because it's true from our perspective - driving a manual has a whole lot more to it than driving an auto. It's a different skill set. I don't know anyone who drives a stick that can't drive an auto well, but the opposite is certainly not true - just because you can drive your own auto fast doesn't necessarily mean you know jack about driving a stick well. You could certainly learn, but not in a day and it's not a given.

There is a coordination between your right foot and your left foot and your right hand and your left hand that is not easily learned in one day in a parking lot. The first time you try to brake and downshift and steer coming in too hot to a corner, you figure that out. Hopefully you just back into the ditch slowly and don't hit anything :)

That said, knowing your auto and shift pattern is a skill as well, just not really that hard to pick up if one is motivated. Pat yourself on the back all you want for knowing how to steer with both hands with your foot on the floor, but I know how to balance the gas and clutch as well as how to rev match and when to heel-toe. That's not elitism talking, that's from learning how to drive an auto well and then learning how to drive a stick well. There is a hell of a lot more to driving a manual smoothly, period, end of discussion, that's all folks, please drive through.

No disrespect to anyone driving an auto. That doesn't lessen your worth or make someone a loser. Or automatically mean your car sucks. We drive what we have. Some of us had the freedom to pick and choose, and some of us got stuck with the best of what was available. I'd prefer my car was black instead of white, but circumstances made that choice for me. I don't think that means I'm less evil or something lol. At least it's a stick, I tell myself. Someone out there is running around in a black auto GT, telling themselves "at least it's black, not fairy white" lol.
Click to expand...



very well put, i wanted a stick, but my particular situation negated that i buy the auto -_-

lol

but thanks for all the replys guys :D
 
#19
Plus with an auto you can manually shift the tranny using the 1 --> 2 --> D options, hitting the max TQ/HP rpm range and then shifting to the next gear without taking any power away from the wheels (and getting very loud tire barks in the process) :D

......or am I the only one who does that lol
 
#20
40oz said:
^ I would have been surprised if you didn't know how to drive a stick, just based on your posts.

I think once you mod your auto with a stall or whatever, you can forget that "half second slower" BS. I'd say that only applies to stock for stock. Autos have more strengths than weaknesses in most usage. Little things like being able to shift without stopping power to the wheels, multiplying torque to the wheels while the converter slips, never missing shifts, etc. Being able to drive fast with one arm and one leg lol. (don't laugh, it could happen to you :) )

Simple things like knowing how and when your auto shifts can negate any advantage IMHO, even on a casual track day road course. Hell, just having better tires and knowing how to hold the brakes and build rpms on the launch will give an advantage over a blowhard with a stick and worn Falken's :) The perception that a monkey could drive an auto to win is widespread but wrong, IMHO.

Some people slag anyone who has a different goal or situation than their own. That's not right, to my mind.
Click to expand...
Amen, but on a road course I'm picking a stick everyday of the week. And I still ran a 14.06 with the stock trans with stock heads and cams. The built trans (and dont forget programmable, guys) is just a whole different thing - especially with more power. I cant wait for it to see boost.

Oh, and VEE EIGHT, you're not the only one - but may i recommend a serious trans cooler for doing that. Shift kits and valve body changes will help too, as stock it can't sustain line pressure long/well enough and compromises clutch overlap - which means more wear and heat.
 
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