05 GTs walked by Used Non-Modded Z28s

crazykid2056 · Jun 29, 2005

As long as we have Supercharged Cobras, the old LS1's will be no problem

DoubleONegative · Jun 29, 2005

crazykid2056 said:
As long as we have Supercharged Cobras, the old LS1's will be no problem

I beat a few before the blower but those few kills i had were really close.

now with the KB it's a whole different story

Orr89rocz · Jun 29, 2005

yeah, till you run into the mild bolt on LS1 with a cam and 100-150shot...thats good for 500 at the wheels+

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

Philstang said:
Displacement is not realy the first thing to look for as a reason to why car A is faster than car B
Take the 5.9 360ci Dodge motor as an example, the newer 4.7 28?ci are similar in quickness and the 5.7 Hemi's would blow the 5.9's out of the water.

The Old, and I do mean OLD 360 Dodge is a world behind in the technoology dept.
The new technology 281 Mustang V8 is faster than a Boss 429 was in its day on the street in stock form.
With similar technology, displacement on similar cars will win out.

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

Bowtiesblow said:
I had no idea they made so many of them. Do you think that is going to effect the resale value? I know not for a couple years but 190,000 in one year. damn

I fail to see how this car being so popular relates to a lower resale. Ford cant make enough to meet the demand. With demand, resale is good.
Though I seriously doubt my GT will ever be sold while Im alive.

sawman70 · Jun 29, 2005

Orr89rocz said:
yeah, till you run into the mild bolt on LS1 with a cam and 100-150shot...thats good for 500 at the wheels+

My Cobra is of the slower nature around here with 455 rwhp. 550 is the norm and there are a few with 600+ on stock internals and a Kenne Belle. I don't think an 03/04 owner is that scared of a cam and a shot when more HP is just a pully away.

When the 07 comes out, 600+ rwhp will be the norm. Mustang technology marches on while the F body owners clammer to stop their cars from falling apart from age.

When I tire of my Cobra at least I know there is another one I can trade up to.

Gee, if Ford had just put a bigger engine in the Mustang we'd have one to compete with the 06 Camaro but the idiots at ford didn't make a car that had mass appeal.......

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

300bhp/ton said:
I'm sure that had a bearing on it but the reasons runn much deeper, ever since the haydays of the late 70's when Smokey and the Bandit shot Trans Am sales to all time highs they have been dropping. And it was not only GM that had this problem, in the early 90's Ford was actually considering dropping the Mustang due to such low sales performance, the replacement was eventually produced the 4 cylinder fwd Ford Probe, but due to public complaints the Mustang servived. Moving on thru the 90's into the Naughties sales where once again struggling, largly due to the explosion of performance pick ups and SUVs and increased compition from foriegn car makers such as BMW, Porsche and so on.

Both the Fbody and Mustang where using very old technology which was far behind the modern competition technically wise and where becoming un-economical to continue to develop. GM had no new platform to look at, at the time and decided that at the current sales rate it was not a viable market in invest in a new model. The 4th Gen Fbody had reached its pinicle of development, there was little left to be done without a whole redesign so it was axed.

Ford faced the same problem with the sn95, its sell by date had expired some 20 years earlier and they too had reached the end of the line. I would guess there was serious consideration of dumping the model but 3 factors probably changed it.

1. The SUV and pick up bubble appears to have burst recently and sales of performance coupes are once again picking up (although these figures are influenced by one other major factor which I will get on to in a min)

2. The Jaguar X-Type development and associated models (Mondeo, Lincoln LS). This gave Ford a whole new platform that was the correct size for a new Mustang without the cost of developing a whole new platform for it.

3. As GM axed the FBody this undeniable inflated Mustang sales. If in 2003 you wanted a new American V8 performance coupe there was but one choice, the Mustang. Had Ford folded 1st and axed the Mustang then I'm sure the Fbody would have survived by the same means.

GM did relise there error, which is apparant by the sudden release of a large rebadged Australian coupe called the Monaro. You know it as the GTO. It may not have been ideal to compete against the Mustang but at the time it was all GM had, and cost next to nothing to put into production. Although it may not sell in the numbers of the Mustang it was never intended too and is mearly a stop cap until a new model is ready for release.

The Fbody in one shape or another will return as GM can not afford to be selling in this now lucrative market.

Just a couple comments.. dont forget Volvos engineering in the New Mustang ride etc,
Also how much more were comparably equipped F Bodies than Stangs of the same generation.
YOu say GM made the GTO for next to nothing, yet it is stickered 5000+ more than a GT.
Im not sure GM has learned anything. They have AXED the new rear wheel drive platform, which you can read 2007 Camaro and others. They are putting their cash into the SUV/pickup market. While there prob will be a 2006 GTO, Im not sure like Doc, that 2007 will include the GTO.

F Bodies "as far as I know" have had more power for years than a Mustang, but were always several thousand more. One more reason there is not a 2005 Camaro out there to compete with Mustang.

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

GreyGoose said:
The new 300C SRT8 is running 12.99 stock........http://www.chargerforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496 this is why I don't wanna get a mustang again the power is not there..... well not the one I am looking for...

I call BS. Even if it is it cost HOW much more?

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

DBMSTNG said:
one last thing. Dodge and build quality go tegether like peanut butter and seafood.

Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth had always had that exact quality.
When the Magnum first came out I considered it. (I hadnt seen the 05 Concept yet) but having never suffered through a Chrysler product as many of my friends had, I decided to pass. Boy am I glad.

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

Orr89rocz said:
any LS1 will run good to 100K miles... i know of many that are running near that and still doing good times.

Piston slap and all......

Thunder Road · Jun 29, 2005

Ive resisted replying on this thread numerous times, but it still keeps poping back up in the top of the list. I was weak, I gave in, I replied......
I blama myself.

91zr1 · Jun 29, 2005

Bowtiesblow said:
I had no idea they made so many of them. Do you think that is going to effect the resale value? I know not for a couple years but 190,000 in one year. damn

The dealers better hurry up and get while the getting is good, because next year the market will be flooded and the resale value will be marginal at best.
The fact that the Mustang is a high production, low cost vehicle, will affect resale. It is ridiculous that dealers are trying to sell these cars for sticker.
The party is almost over.

sawman70 · Jun 29, 2005

91zr1 said:
The dealers better hurry up and get while the getting is good, because next year the market will be flooded and the resale value will be marginal at best.
The fact that the Mustang is a high production, low cost vehicle, will affect resale. It is ridiculous that dealers are trying to sell these cars for sticker.
The party is almost over.

The party will be over for the dealers but it is just beginning for the patient.

What would you do with 2 grand you saved off sticker??????

What would you do for a Klondike bar for that matter????

jfischer · Jun 29, 2005

Thunder Road said:
F Bodies "as far as I know" have had more power for years than a Mustang, but were always several thousand more.

I don't think so. The Z28 was always very competitively priced with the Mustang GT.

Orr89rocz · Jun 29, 2005

I don't think an 03/04 owner is that scared of a cam and a shot when more HP is just a pully away.

no they are very competitive with the Fbody guys... but they are abit heavier so its gonna take more than 550whp to compete with a 500whp fbody. give or take about even gearing... and 500rwhp is the 'norm' for a nitrous shot ls1....... many guys are pushing 600 rwhp and thats good for low 10's. most cobras i see kick out at about 600rwhp, and only a set few with 700

sawman70 · Jun 29, 2005

This thread has woven it's way into an assinine discussion plotting a healthy selling CURRENT vehicle against an aging lot of hold outs who will carry the torch untill it rusts from beneath them.

Bottom line.

On any given day any car can beat any other car. It only takes money.

You want a 1500 hp 05 Mustang, by the motor and shove it in. None of it matters because they still aren't making Camaros.

Let's move now to the "05's keep getting owned by 426 Hemi Cuda" thread or the "Why the hell did my 05 loose to a jet powered mini bike?" thread. It is just as logical.

FINAL RANT. When the 03 is mentioned, it is answered with "but wait till I add cams and nitrous" when the 07 comes out it will be answered with "but wait till I buy the 501 Cube crate motor and add nitrous". All of this happening in a 10 year old car which is leaking at the T tops and rattling down the road.

R.I.P. F BODY - It was fun while it lasted but it has been over for a while now and we really should let you rest.

DoubleONegative · Jun 30, 2005

Orr89rocz said:
yeah, till you run into the mild bolt on LS1 with a cam and 100-150shot...thats good for 500 at the wheels+

Heh, i wouldn't call that a mild bolt on LS1.

My best friends 99 SS made 488RWHP and 530RWTQ with a 125 dry shot, cam, longtubes,lid,O/R Y pipe, Cat-back, and MAF. It a beast

SpazHairlip · Jun 30, 2005

A lot of the cars in the Mustangs price range that are touted as sports cars are coming from over seas. Foreign cars makers don’t really design their vehicles around doing the ¼ mile; they tune them more for a total package, acceleration, handling, braking, top speed, and more a well-rounded car. Mustangs and F-Bodies have always been stuck in more of a drag strip type of rut.

Corvettes broke away from the ¼ mile curse a long time ago; the new Ford GT is also going to be more of a rounded track car.

It seems that the Mustang is just starting to set it self up as a track car instead of a drag car. It handles and brakes really well compared to other model year Mustangs and I hope it continues down this road. It’s a pretty archaic mindset to have a car that is pretty much only going to excel at the drag strip. This is one of the contributing factors to the F-Bodies demise.

Mustangs maybe were slower then F-Bodies in the ¼ mile, but they made up for it in other ways. They could brake better then a similar model F-Body and handled as well or better too. Going into a corner and coming out with a snap is better to me then just going .5 seconds faster in the ¼ mile.

To me, it’s more then just gunning the engine and dropping the clutch at a green light, it’s about accelerating and touring through winding roads and twisting turns.

Bullitt · Jun 30, 2005

SpazHairlip said:
They could brake better then a similar model F-Body and handled as well or better too.

you've obviously never seriously autocrossed/road raced/driven hard.

a 4th gen (LT1/LS1) camaro will eat a mustang for lunch in anything remotely twisty. camaros/firebirds handle A LOT better than a mustang and stop a lot better too. and the sad thing is, that a 3rd gen camaro (yes the one your mullet haired neighbor has) with the right package (B4C, police edition) handles BETTER than a 4th gen! look at road racing or autocross results from the past few years and more often than not, it's a camaro that wins (with the exception of the Mach 1 and the Bullitt, no mustangs can compete in FS, the stock pony car class in autocrossing).

i like mustangs, but give credit were credit is due.

crazykid2056 · Jun 30, 2005

Don't forget Jim's 1998 Trans Am (stock) which ran 12.9, and second run 13.1

Not bad for a $8,000.00 LS1 car, STOCK.

05 GTs walked by Used Non-Modded Z28s

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