1/4 times, Performer vs. Performer RPM

5spd GT · Sep 13, 2004

It's real simple if people follow the "custom cammers" advice...(Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, etc)...they are professionals and make different combinations for different people every day for people like "you and me" and sadly some people don't take their advice

I think they know a thing or two

nmcgrawj · Sep 13, 2004

5spd GT said:
It's real simple if people follow the "custom cammers" advice...(Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, etc)...they are professionals and make different combinations for different people every day for people like "you and me" and sadly some people don't take their advice

I think they know a thing or two

That is always true, but i also found out that the custom cammers have different opinions also. But if you are going with a custom cam, then obviously you are planning your package and so hopefully it will fly. Both intakes make great power, you wont lose power with either one but i think there is some power to be gained with the RPM.

final5-0 · Sep 13, 2004

GTJake said:
To everyone that says this is evidence that the RPM is "too big" for a 302...

You can't just swap parts out like that and excpect to see results without tuning. For example, I changed my CAI setup and added a 75mm TB and the best I could do was a 12.8@108. That is compared to a previous CAI setup and 70mm TB with a best of 12.7@110. When I changed that setup the car started to run real fat and would even backfire when I shifted hard and when I left off after the traps. The point is, big changes in air flow affect the A/F ratio and need to be tuned.

I don't know whether the RPM is better for Chad's setup as far as 1/4 mile times, but I'm sure it has more in it than this preliminary test. Tuning is needed to show what it can really do.

Jake

I agree with what Jake has said here about tuning for a change in the combo!

You usually will have to drive differently at the strip after a combo change also.

I know that zenboy99 did some of that his first time at the strip but as some have already pointed out, a thing or two in his tune might be holding him back a bit and his attempts at different driving practices might not have been valid cause of the tune.

Another thing we all know is that with a new car or combo, the more times you drive it at the strip the better of a feel you get for it and the times keep coming down.

Heck, when you go to the dyno you have to make some adjustments to reach your goal.

I think it is unreasonable to expect the best performance from a change in your combo at the first attempt at the strip or on the dyno.

Then again, I guess it is possible to get lucky and hit the bullseye on your first try

Later
Grady

Killercanary · Sep 13, 2004

I will wait and save my judgement until it is running at its full potential... then again, was the performer run at its full potential... I mean we have to ask if we hope to learn something here. The thing that REALLY jumps out at me is the 3+mph drop in the 1/8th mile MPH. That's a pretty big drop. Chad, was this only on one run, or did this hold true on them all? Keep us posted. I totally agree with what Charlie is saying, and this has been my viewpoint all along.

nmcgrawj- there's nothing with "going with the crowd" if the parts are proven to work. Then again, its cool to see and try new things. I did just that when I first did the AFR/FTI/E-brock combo, but it was a combo based on sound components that complemented each other well. Bigger isn't always better, or as fun. My dad has a "bigger" combo than mine with a more radical cam, intake, gearing, etc.... it s also faster than my car too. BUT I'd take my car any day of the week over his. Its hard for those that haven't experienced such a car to realize that it isn't as much fun as a car with a strong low end on the street and for everyday driving, but I have. Its all in what you want/like, but I personally don't want a street car that doesn't come alive until 4000+rpms.

zenboy99 · Sep 13, 2004

5spd GT said:
It's real simple if people follow the "custom cammers" advice...(Ed Curtis, Buddy Rawls, etc)...they are professionals and make different combinations for different people every day for people like "you and me" and sadly some people don't take their advice

I think they know a thing or two

Ed Curtis told me I would see a better ET and mph with the RPM intake, but would loose the low end punch. You must not have read my other posts on other threads.

VibrantRedGT · Sep 13, 2004

More fuel and timing is all that's needed. Can't run the same settings that you did with the Performer.

5spd GT · Sep 13, 2004

zenboy99 said:
Ed Curtis told me I would see a better ET and mph with the RPM intake, but would loose the low end punch. You must not have read my other posts on other threads.

I keep an eye on this forum...obviously you have and seen Ed's advice...the low end punch loss (-3mph)...and if you go back to my original post in this thread I put "keep practicing with it"...meaning you need to go back with your rpm and practice...and see some of those ET's and mph...got me?

zenboy99 · Sep 13, 2004

Paul, all the 1/8 mile times had similar mph's. That was the first thing that I noticed, I thought that was very interesting.

tmoss, the traction loc really wasn't an issue since my 60 foots were similar and I wasn't spinning the tires at all after 60 feet.

First let me state that I'm a scientist for a living and I really enjoy testing and tuning things. I bought this intake because I didn't see anyone comparing these two, and I was curious to see how it would effect my car. I played with 3 different tunes on my JMS chip for both intakes ( +2 degrees timing, -2 degrees timing, richer, leaner.) and ET and mph didn't really change. The shift points had much more of an effect on ET then the timing and fuel changes on the chip did. (And yes I made sure several different times that the chip was plugged in and working).

95snoozer · Sep 13, 2004

if you are running 3.73s your answer might be right there.

gt40 you can get by with that gear but with the rpm, you NEED 4.10s

I am currently running an rpm on stock heads and its all topend now. with the 3.73s..... awaiting 4.10s and a new diff, my ****zle is grinding

95snoozer · Sep 13, 2004

zenboy99 said:
Ed Curtis told me I would see a better ET and mph with the RPM intake, but would loose the low end punch. You must not have read my other posts on other threads.

VERY VERY FUNNY

Ed Curtis told me that i would slow myself down going from stock heads to trick flow heads, one of his custom grind cams, and an RPM. ALSO, he said he would not grind a cam for that combo, yet he is telling you to do the very same thing. THAT'S A KNEE SLAPPER if i have ever seen one.

Screw you Ed as a business man, a racer and a person. I guess i will just have to go fast the good ole fashion way and without any afr fti parts..... just like in Dark pony's case; you couldnt handle the fact that he made the power your cars do on stock computer and maybe showed people that there IS an alternative.

it is too bad i got scammed on the heads otherwise i could make you eat your words again just like when you said i needed to "get a clue" when i said i would go 12s on bone stock heads

I am well motivated by spite so i guess i should THANK you for driving me to get my car where it is and prove you wrong.

Thanks Ed

95snoozer · Sep 13, 2004

95snoozer · Sep 13, 2004

I developed this graph based off a dyno test done at AFM. All temps were controlled and as many factors as possible held constant.

it could be leaner uptop

crap, my server resized it... i will get a bigger version soon.

nmcgrawj · Sep 13, 2004

95snoozer said:
VERY VERY FUNNY

Ed Curtis told me that i would slow myself down going from stock heads to trick flow heads, one of his custom grind cams, and an RPM. ALSO, he said he would not grind a cam for that combo, yet he is telling you to do the very same thing. THAT'S A KNEE SLAPPER if i have ever seen one.

Screw you Ed as a business man, a racer and a person. I guess i will just have to go fast the good ole fashion way and without any afr fti parts..... just like in Dark pony's case; you couldnt handle the fact that he made the power your cars do on stock computer and maybe showed people that there IS an alternative.

it is too bad i got scammed on the heads otherwise i could make you eat your words again just like when you said i needed to "get a clue" when i said i would go 12s on bone stock heads

I am well motivated by spite so i guess i should THANK you for driving me to get my car where it is and prove you wrong.

Thanks Ed

I second that for FTI cams. I was talking to Ed, i told him i was ready to buy the cam, and his emails were VERY thin. I would write him multiple paragraphs about what i wanted and i would get a response like "performer" or "you need the low end grunt to get the car moving". Thats fine and all, but i would like a little bit more info or reasoning for giving you my $325 besides your reputation. I made a comment about GTJakes numbers using the performer with the ported lower and i asked what effects that would have. All Ed said to me was "GTJake has a totally different setup than you." Now guys come on, i have a stock engine with TFS heads sitting at home with the fox lake port job on them and no other parts. How are our combos so different?

I am very glad Grn92LX told me to hit up Jay Allen at Cam innovations. He explained everything and RECOMMENDED rather than TELLING me what intake and other parts i should run. All he does is cams....he doesn't sell intakes so he doesn't sound like a salesman like Ed Curtis did. Dont get me wrong, Ed does make nice cams by the way people talk, but something just didn't feel right. Maybe he has too much business to be personal and to explain things. Oh well, i didn't want to be the same ol' afr/fti/eddy stang....so Ed sue me. No flame to you afr/fti/eddy guys

nmcgrawj · Sep 13, 2004

95snoozer said:
I developed this graph based off a dyno test done at AFM. All temps were controlled and as many factors as possible held constant.

it could be leaner uptop

crap, my server resized it... i will get a bigger version soon.

Send it to me and i can post it.

95snoozer · Sep 13, 2004

if you want to save som ecash and make power... my friend is selling his cam... he made 320+ / 338 on ported trick flow heads and ported performer intake

very mild AFM cam too, i mean very.

he is selling the cam for cheap too i think 125. he has since gone with a high revving 331. PM me if interested

nmcgrawj · Sep 13, 2004

95snoozer said:
if you want to save som ecash and make power... my friend is selling his cam... he made 320+ / 338 on ported trick flow heads and ported performer intake

very mild AFM cam too, i mean very.

he is selling the cam for cheap too i think 125. he has since gone with a high revving 331. PM me if interested

Im not trying to save cash cam wise, thats the most important part of the performance. I was just saying for spending that much money, i expected a little bit more customer service.

nmcgrawj · Sep 13, 2004

email that graph to me so i can put it up, what is it about?

nmcgrawj@umich.edu

wytstang · Sep 13, 2004

nmcgrawj said:
I second that for FTI cams. I was talking to Ed, i told him i was ready to buy the cam, and his emails were VERY thin. I would write him multiple paragraphs about what i wanted and i would get a response like "performer" or "you need the low end grunt to get the car moving". Thats fine and all, but i would like a little bit more info or reasoning for giving you my $325 besides your reputation. I made a comment about GTJakes numbers using the performer with the ported lower and i asked what effects that would have. All Ed said to me was "GTJake has a totally different setup than you." Now guys come on, i have a stock engine with TFS heads sitting at home with the fox lake port job on them and no other parts. How are our combos so different?

I am very glad Grn92LX told me to hit up Jay Allen at Cam innovations. He explained everything and RECOMMENDED rather than TELLING me what intake and other parts i should run. All he does is cams....he doesn't sell intakes so he doesn't sound like a salesman like Ed Curtis did. Dont get me wrong, Ed does make nice cams by the way people talk, but something just didn't feel right. Maybe he has too much business to be personal and to explain things. Oh well, i didn't want to be the same ol' afr/fti/eddy stang....so Ed sue me. No flame to you afr/fti/eddy guys

Jay Allen is very informative I have read many posts by him at hardcore50. He is not a sells man at all I have read where he has told people not to buy a cam because that's not what they needed and recommended what part would help them out more.

GTJake · Sep 13, 2004

The only thing I have to say in Ed's defence is he probably gets hundreds of emails each day because he is that well known. I noticed that he is very short in his responces also. Oh well, Jay Allen, Buddy Rawls, Ed Curtis, it doesn't really matter. Custom will always provide an advantage over OTS.

One thing I've learned about how to comminicate with Ed is try to do alot of the research yourself and then ask him his opinion in a very short direct manner. He usually gives you the same in return.

Jake

tmoss · Sep 13, 2004

Killercanary said:
My dad has a "bigger" combo than mine with a more radical cam, intake, gearing, etc.... it s also faster than my car too. BUT I'd take my car any day of the week over his. Its hard for those that haven't experienced such a car to realize that it isn't as much fun as a car with a strong low end on the street and for everyday driving, but I have. Its all in what you want/like, but I personally don't want a street car that doesn't come alive until 4000+rpms.

I agree TOTALLY and that is why I stress area under the torque curve for street cars. Years of driving marginally streetable cars or plain unstreetable cars is the only way to learn this lesson for some.

1/4 times, Performer vs. Performer RPM

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