190cc procomp heads

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

now im not the person who likes to go cheap if i can avoid it, but after looking at flow numbers versus the price how would these procomp heads compare to the AFR 185's http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/289-...ads-190cc_W0QQitemZ370261405631QQcmdZViewItem
they seem to have pretty similar flow numbers for a much much cheaper price, they are local to me and i have seen these heads first hand and the quality is quite impressive, im thinking with a few hundred in head work and increasing the combusting size to 72cc for my engine will put me waay ahead of the game and help me finish my Si-trim engine, looking to make 700-800rwhp, so if these heads wont do it i wont bother, but that doesnt mean they cant i just want suggestions

90lxcoupe · Sep 23, 2009

i'd put at least a 205cc head with those power goals, 225's wouldnt hurt either

and those flow numbers arent that impressive
trick flow 205's
http://static.trickflow.com/global/images/chartsguides/t/tfs_af_twisted_wedge_s_ss_cnc_205cc.pdf
trick flow 185's
http://static.trickflow.com/global/images/chartsguides/t/tfs_af_twisted_wedge_s_ss_cnc_185cc.pdf

liljoe07 · Sep 23, 2009

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How many heads have you seen to compare them to? Decent heads. All kinds of things that the eye fails to notice, because it not on plain view, or it doesn't know what its looking at.

I've seen two sets of these heads. Both assembled and took apart. Granted I'm no expert, but the ones I've seen, had valves that were different heights, rocker studs not in line. Things that make setting up the valve train a PITA.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

90lxcoupe said:
i'd put at least a 205cc head with those power goals, 225's wouldnt hurt either

and those flow numbers arent that impressive
trick flow 205's
http://static.trickflow.com/global/images/chartsguides/t/tfs_af_twisted_wedge_s_ss_cnc_205cc.pdf
trick flow 185's
http://static.trickflow.com/global/images/chartsguides/t/tfs_af_twisted_wedge_s_ss_cnc_185cc.pdf

i know that larger intake runners are gonna help with power but this is also a road course car so i want to keep the torque curve as low in the rpms and possible

90lxcoupe · Sep 23, 2009

Shaolin Crane said:
i know that larger intake runners are gonna help with power but this is also a road course car so i want to keep the torque curve as low in the rpms and possible

this has already been gone over in previous threads, but what your doing isnt going to work, blower(centrifugal) cars are very lazy under 4000rpms, you cant have a car thats gonna be snappy down low and still make 700 hp, unless you have some serious cubes backing it up.

Edit: its a false belief that with a 205cc head you will have no torque down low... look at the dyno sheet in my progress thread and tell me that im giving up torque on the low end

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

im not saying they are awesome but for the price of 500 picked up locally, for 252cfm intake compared to afr's intake cfm of 287, for the price of 2200, big price difference not a big flow difference, and im not assembling these heads my engine builder is and he has worked with procomp heads a number of times and has assured me they are good heads

liljoe07 · Sep 23, 2009

OooKay.

Flow numbers dont mean everything. Its just a small part of the equation.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

90lxcoupe said:
this has already been gone over in previous threads, but what your doing isnt going to work, blower(centrifugal) cars are very lazy under 4000rpms, you cant have a car thats gonna be snappy down low and still make 700 hp, unless you have some serious cubes backing it up.

Edit: its a false belief that with a 205cc head you will have no torque down low... look at the dyno sheet in my progress thread and tell me that im giving up torque on the low end

im not saying you wont have low torque im just saying generally i'll make lower torque with the 185's

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

liljoe07 said:
OooKay.

Flow numbers dont mean everything. Its just a small part of the equation.

yes but its generally the largest part of the equation

liljoe07 · Sep 23, 2009

There are heads that flow less, but perform better.

You can hog a head out till it flows ridiculous numbers on a Flow Bench. But it has no bearing on how a head performs on an Engine. Heads are tested under 28" of water, and Engine doesnt operate at 28". Not to mention the various pressure drops and rises an engine goes though.

Port Shape, Port Taper, Valve Angle and Placement, MCSA, thats where its at. Flow numbers are just a result, and can be manipulated many ways.

Good Luck on your Pro Comps.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

liljoe07 said:
There are heads that flow less, but perform better.

You can hog a head out till it flows ridiculous numbers on a Flow Bench. But it has no bearing on how a head performs on an Engine. Heads are tested under 28" of water, and Engine doesnt operate at 28". Not to mention the various pressure drops and rises an engine goes though.

Port Shape, Port Taper, Valve Angle and Placement, MCSA, thats where its at. Flow numbers are just a result, and can be manipulated many ways.

Good Luck on your Pro Comps.

i never said i was going going with procomps, im just saying thats one of the options, currently im still set on AFR's but was wondering if those procomps would be a viable option with my engine, everything is up in the air right now as far as heads go, im sure of the intake and whatnot but still deciding on heads, because well they are the next most expensive thing, 185'2 or 205's trick flow or afr, all this is for research and is in no way me defending any brand, obviously the heads can perform since MM&FF just did a test of their 210cc heads, and obviously AFR's always make great numbers but i simply had a question, and all i got were comments of, procomp is crap, they look good but are crap, and havnt really gotten any background as to why anyone says this

liljoe07 · Sep 23, 2009

They look good, on the outside. But there has been many issues with these heads. Some are stated in my first post. With out actually paying attention, and looking for it, you would never notice it. Just trying to help.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 23, 2009

liljoe07 said:
They look good, on the outside. But there has been many issues with these heads. Some are stated in my first post. With out actually paying attention, and looking for it, you would never notice it. Just trying to help.

i appreciate all help. i looked at the heads pretty closely but i'll go back tomorrow and bring my digital cailper with me for a closer look

white 89 GT · Sep 23, 2009

If you go cheap don`t expect too much. retainers, springs, keepers, and valves are most likely "cheap" also.
Only one way to make good power and it aint the cheap way.

57fairlane · Sep 23, 2009

the only way I see them being worth it is if you work at/own a machine shop

1987stangman · Sep 23, 2009

Shaolin Crane said:
now im not the person who likes to go cheap if i can avoid it, but after looking at flow numbers versus the price how would these procomp heads compare to the AFR 185's http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/289-...ads-190cc_W0QQitemZ370261405631QQcmdZViewItem
they seem to have pretty similar flow numbers for a much much cheaper price, they are local to me and i have seen these heads first hand and the quality is quite impressive, im thinking with a few hundred in head work and increasing the combusting size to 72cc for my engine will put me waay ahead of the game and help me finish my Si-trim engine, looking to make 700-800rwhp, so if these heads wont do it i wont bother, but that doesnt mean they cant i just want suggestions

Are you a MMFF reader? Check out the lastest issue on their article on 1,000 dollar 400HP 302 build up. Pretty interesting. They used a set of Pro Comp 210CC heads. Not what your looking at but a good read none the less.

irish · Sep 23, 2009

Usually you have to spend so much to make them right, that you would have saved money and goten better performance simply buying the right head in the first place.

They are copies, bad copies at that.

Matt

2000xp8 · Sep 23, 2009

irish said:
Usually you have to spend so much to make them right, that you would have saved money and goten better performance simply buying the right head in the first place.

They are copies, bad copies at that.

Matt

Exactly.
Machine shop work and parts really start to add up.

Economize by just buying a better head to begin with.

Shaolin Crane · Sep 24, 2009

my friend owns a machine shop and i own various tools you would find in a machine shop (lathe, 5 axis mill, presses etc) but im still set on AFR's so far just seeing what other would have to say as the procomps being a viable option

90lxcoupe · Sep 24, 2009

everytime ive tried to save money, i have to replace the cheap part with the one i was originally considering buying

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