1968 GT fastback or Porsche 911?
- Thread starter Brian68GT
- Start date
To the guy who pulled me up on not knowing my Porsche's because I accidently wrote 996 instead of 964, well excuse me!
To the rest of berating me for not being able to make up my mind or being too dumb to realise that a 68 Gt Fatsback is preferable to a 90's 911, well you have to understand where I'm coming from.
I know what I own, I know how rare it is and how lucky I am. But i'll tell you a brief story which might help explain how i see things. I used to collect rare movie related toys and movies posters. I had around 10,000 euros worth of Star Wars toys and rare movie posters etc. which I believed would continue to grow in value and would one day be worth far more than i paid for them. One day I arrived home to find my appartment burnt to the ground and EVERYTHING I EVER OWNED destroyed.
From that moment on i realised that not only was I lucky to be alive but that NOTHING lasts forever.
I now live life with the attitude that 'you only live once', which is why I bought the Mustang and why I'll probably buy a 911 and why in two years time i'll probably buy an Aston Martin, and i'll continue to do that until i'm 80 years of age and i'll have owned, at one stage in my life, every car that ever excited me. The other option is to hold onto the Mustang because in 10 years its going to be worth a million dollars, and then i get run over by a bus next week.
That at least has been the attitude i have TRIED to adopt, but when your faced with actually parting with one of those cars you've always dreamed of owning it becomes a little harder, which is why i posted on this web board to try to get a little encouragement which might help me make up my mind.
If you think i'm too dumb to know what I have though, you couldn't be further from the truth.
By the way, I sued the person who stared the fire in my appartment, i got the equivalent to $25,000 from them and used it as a deposit on a house, which I now live in happily with my wife and child. Would I rather I was still renting a flat and still own those toys and posters that were slowly appreciating in value? Eh, no.
To the rest of berating me for not being able to make up my mind or being too dumb to realise that a 68 Gt Fatsback is preferable to a 90's 911, well you have to understand where I'm coming from.
I know what I own, I know how rare it is and how lucky I am. But i'll tell you a brief story which might help explain how i see things. I used to collect rare movie related toys and movies posters. I had around 10,000 euros worth of Star Wars toys and rare movie posters etc. which I believed would continue to grow in value and would one day be worth far more than i paid for them. One day I arrived home to find my appartment burnt to the ground and EVERYTHING I EVER OWNED destroyed.
From that moment on i realised that not only was I lucky to be alive but that NOTHING lasts forever.
I now live life with the attitude that 'you only live once', which is why I bought the Mustang and why I'll probably buy a 911 and why in two years time i'll probably buy an Aston Martin, and i'll continue to do that until i'm 80 years of age and i'll have owned, at one stage in my life, every car that ever excited me. The other option is to hold onto the Mustang because in 10 years its going to be worth a million dollars, and then i get run over by a bus next week.
That at least has been the attitude i have TRIED to adopt, but when your faced with actually parting with one of those cars you've always dreamed of owning it becomes a little harder, which is why i posted on this web board to try to get a little encouragement which might help me make up my mind.
If you think i'm too dumb to know what I have though, you couldn't be further from the truth.
By the way, I sued the person who stared the fire in my appartment, i got the equivalent to $25,000 from them and used it as a deposit on a house, which I now live in happily with my wife and child. Would I rather I was still renting a flat and still own those toys and posters that were slowly appreciating in value? Eh, no.
'66 coupe
Founding Member
So why not just skip the Porsche and get the Aston Martin?
Honestly, when I see an old Porsche, I just look at it like the driver wasted their money. I NEVER get excited about seeing a Porsche on the streets unless it's like a brand new high end model; and how long does that impression last?
I just think it's odd that you have a classic American car, and are disappointed that it doesn't perform well in anything but a straight line. It just sounds like you didn't know what you were getting and are trying to fix the problem by buying the type of Porsche that, over here, would be right at home in a Wal-Mart parking lot.
Honestly, when I see an old Porsche, I just look at it like the driver wasted their money. I NEVER get excited about seeing a Porsche on the streets unless it's like a brand new high end model; and how long does that impression last?
I just think it's odd that you have a classic American car, and are disappointed that it doesn't perform well in anything but a straight line. It just sounds like you didn't know what you were getting and are trying to fix the problem by buying the type of Porsche that, over here, would be right at home in a Wal-Mart parking lot.
jerry S
New Member
Brian68GT said:
Dudeman, at the end of the day, it is YOUR car and YOUR choice. Do what you want. I was only trying to point out that your mustang will only go up in value while that Porsche will only go down. I tried to address your concerns about handling. I sure had some fun last night accelerating into some turns at high speed and sticking the the ground like a booger under a first grader's desk. I was in a similar spot. I had an old Patek Philippe that I sold. It was a gold dress watch and I never had the occasion to wear it. I knew it would go up in value over time but I also knew I like things I can use and I didn't ever see myself wearing it. So I sold it and bought an Omega Speedmaster, an Omega Seamaster, and Baume et Mercier Capeland Chronograph, all new in box. Now I have three different mechanical watches to choose from each morning. Was the Patek a better watch than any of the above? Hell yes. Would it continue to appreciate? Most likely. The other watches steadily lose value. If you have lost interest in the mustang, then dump it. But if handling is your issue, you can get a lot more performance out of that car than you probably think and you might be able to fall in love with her again.
I had my car out last night and was revving the engine. 450 horsies roaring, shaking the dishes out of the cupboards. Everybody on my street came to see it and tell me how cool my car is, even the guy with the 2002 Porsche Boxster S. Nobody bats an eye when he takes his car out.
Brian,
I understand completely where you're coming from. You're a petrol head, and like all sorts of cars. I love my Mustang (probably because it hasn't turned a wheel yet...) but one day I fully expect to get tired of it. Hopefully I'll have enough cash to buy something else and keep the Mustang as well. The sort of cars we like all have different 'personalities' (for want of a better word). Some will handle, some will look great, others will sound great, but I doubt any car will have everything you want in one package, because some aspects of a cars greatness are just down to the car itself - a 68 fastback is what it is, and no other car can give you what that particular car can.
My advice is if you are thinking about another car, then maybe its time to move on - sure you'll regret selling it, just as you'll regret selling the Aston in a few years time. Heck, once you've been through all the cars you want, you can then go back to the one you really, really know you love. We'll see you back here when you do
.
It's only money...
I understand completely where you're coming from. You're a petrol head, and like all sorts of cars. I love my Mustang (probably because it hasn't turned a wheel yet...) but one day I fully expect to get tired of it. Hopefully I'll have enough cash to buy something else and keep the Mustang as well. The sort of cars we like all have different 'personalities' (for want of a better word). Some will handle, some will look great, others will sound great, but I doubt any car will have everything you want in one package, because some aspects of a cars greatness are just down to the car itself - a 68 fastback is what it is, and no other car can give you what that particular car can.
My advice is if you are thinking about another car, then maybe its time to move on - sure you'll regret selling it, just as you'll regret selling the Aston in a few years time. Heck, once you've been through all the cars you want, you can then go back to the one you really, really know you love. We'll see you back here when you do
.It's only money...
Great commenst guys, great comments. The reason I'm on here, looking for your advice and comments is because i fear that in six months time i'll regret selling this car. But then maybe in a few years i'll come back to the Mustang and buy a Boss 302 or even a Shelby, who knows. He'll i might even sell the 911 in two years and but me a 2007 Shelby Cobra Mustang. Its all good.
I love that comment about Wal-Mar. Is that really true, is a Porsche 964 common as muck in the US? That's so funny. As i said in an earlier post, you might not see one in Dublin from one end of the week to the next. But brand new 911's are on every street corner. I suppose when your wealthy you dont have to be creative. I personally wouldnt feel very cool driving around in a brand new 911, all it takes is a large bank account. For me the 964 and particularly the 993 have more of an individual edge to them that new ones.
I will concede one thing however. If i was as wealthy now as I hope to be in the future, the car would be rolled into a garage and kept.
But i'm not that wealthy yet, and I dont have a garage, just a very expensive Nextec car cover.
However, I have managed to get a car loan to cover the cost of the Porsche, so what I might do is this! Buy the Porsche, keep the Mustang and thenafter a few months of ownership I can make an informed, educated decision about which one I want to keep. Does that make sense?
Wow, didnt realise I had started such a controversial post, this is great fun and I sincerely appreciate all of your input, your passion is fantastic!
PS. I'm off to California for the first time in my life next week. I really cant wait, its a place i've always wanted to visit. I'll be in Hollywood for a day or two but most of my time will be in Newport Beach with possibly a day or so in San Diego. Is there anywhere in any of these places I can pick up a new rear drum brake cylinder kit (badly needed) and an oil sender unit for the Mustang? It would save me big time on freight, i could just throw them in the suit case.
I love that comment about Wal-Mar. Is that really true, is a Porsche 964 common as muck in the US? That's so funny. As i said in an earlier post, you might not see one in Dublin from one end of the week to the next. But brand new 911's are on every street corner. I suppose when your wealthy you dont have to be creative. I personally wouldnt feel very cool driving around in a brand new 911, all it takes is a large bank account. For me the 964 and particularly the 993 have more of an individual edge to them that new ones.
I will concede one thing however. If i was as wealthy now as I hope to be in the future, the car would be rolled into a garage and kept.
But i'm not that wealthy yet, and I dont have a garage, just a very expensive Nextec car cover.
However, I have managed to get a car loan to cover the cost of the Porsche, so what I might do is this! Buy the Porsche, keep the Mustang and thenafter a few months of ownership I can make an informed, educated decision about which one I want to keep. Does that make sense?
Wow, didnt realise I had started such a controversial post, this is great fun and I sincerely appreciate all of your input, your passion is fantastic!
PS. I'm off to California for the first time in my life next week. I really cant wait, its a place i've always wanted to visit. I'll be in Hollywood for a day or two but most of my time will be in Newport Beach with possibly a day or so in San Diego. Is there anywhere in any of these places I can pick up a new rear drum brake cylinder kit (badly needed) and an oil sender unit for the Mustang? It would save me big time on freight, i could just throw them in the suit case.
rhyno9
Founding Member
Brian68GT said:
I think just about any auto parts (Autozone,Napa etc...) store should carry them.
About the walmart comment. I wouldn't say they are common but the fact is nobody cares. It's a porsche and they aren't as common as a ford taurus but people walk right past them. A classic mustang will always generate numerous head turns.
The problem I have with porsche is that the 911 basically looks the same as it did 35 yrs ago. Now I know they have made changes to them but most people wouldn't notcie the differences. It's kinda like the 67 to 68 mustangs differences. The average person won't notice. So I guess my point is I think you would look just like the guy driving the new 911 to everyone else.
Now on to your decision. This is a classic mustang message board so the majority of people are biased toward the mustang as you would expect. The reason most people here have reacted the way they did is also because many of them would give their left nut to get a 67-68 fastback but the market for eleanor here has driven the pricing out of control for those model years.
The fact remains that only YOU can make the decision.
'66 coupe
Founding Member
rhyno9 said:
Exactly what I was trying to say. I'm not too sure about the number of early 90's 964s compared to 911s. I don't know enough about them to see the difference, and I if did, I usually don't care enough to look closely at them. Like rhyno9 said, when you see a 10-year old Porsche, its usually not worth it to turn your head to get a good look.
I don't know if you've ever been to a Wal-mart or fully understood my reference; but Wal-Mart parking lots are infamous for being THE spots to see the most undesirable cars (go to www.beaterz.com for examples). If it's trashy, it's at Wal-mart. On the rare occasion that I do go to Wal-Mart, I ALWAYS park my 4 yr-old low-option V6 Mustang in the back away from all the beaters. When my '66 was serving as my daily driver, shopping at Wal-Mart was out of the question. But I definately wouldn't be surprised to see an early 90's Porsche sitting in the middle of a bunch of shopping carts in a Wal-Mart Parking lot. It'd probably be right at home, along with all the 70's Corvettes, 80's Camaros, AMC Gremlins, and whatever else could possibly inhabit those parking lots.
Basically, you're just a different kind of Porsche owner if it's over a certain age, but not old enough to be a classic. A '68 Fastback would definately be more at home in a Country Club parking lot, than a 90's Porsche (trust me, I worked at one for 3 years, and all the members wanted my '66).
Hack
15 Year Member
I don't understand at all why you think '90s Porshes have an "edge". I guess everyone has different taste. Buying a '90s Porshe strikes you as creative and cool, huh? To me it's more of a sign of having money. Now a Porshe could be as good a starting point as anything, I guess. The rear engine setup has some good features to it, and they are nice small, light cars. Don't get me wrong, I think Porshes are fun and fast, but they don't get me going on custom mods like my Mustang does. Maybe things are different over there? I'm sure they are.Brian68GT said:
Don't these Porshes have a flat 6 though? Those things never interested me much, and I would think that everything is packed super tight (engine/drivetrain). Are there a lot of engine swap possibilities? Aftermarket upgrades? Do you have an upgrade path of modifications you want to do over time? Or are you just going to buy it and drive it? How creative are you going to be?
I personally despise working on front wheel drive cars, partly because they don't interest me, but also because it's a royal PITA to get them apart. I've done a couple water pumps and a clutch on front wheel drives. I really hope to never have to fix one again. Now a Porshe is more interesting, but you have the same situation with engine, trans, etc all packed together tightly. Have you looked at one to see how easily it comes apart? How much do parts cost for it? I've thought about buying an old rusty bimmer or porshe, but those are the things that stopped me.
If you want to be creative, make the Mustang into what you want it to be. Or buy something cheap and common in your area and shop the local junkyards to put something fast together. Or just use a local engine - can you find an old Ferrari V12 or something around there? Now that would be awesome fun to me.
Regarding wheel cylinder kits and oil senders... they are really cheap at any old parts store over here. I think a new drum wheel cylinder (whole cylinder, not just a kit) might be $4, and oil senders about the same. If they are spendy in Ireland you might want to make a list of maintenance stuff and stock up while you're here.
While you are in Newport Beach, go to the car show that is every Saturday morning at Crystal Cove on Pacific Coast highway. You will see ALL kinds of european cars there. Late last year a guy pulled up in a new Porsche GT. They have everything from BMW's, Ferrari's, Lambo's, Maserati's, to Mercedes to muscle cars to oddball stuff like that torpedo looking Messerschmidt thing. Cool place to see a VAST assortment of motoring history in one place. Dan Gurney is usually there, pulling up on his Alligator motorcycle. Chip Foose was also there a few months ago.
Fistly i'm not trying to be creative or cool with the Porsche, I'm already doing that with the Mustang. My point was simply that an early 90's Porsche is less common here than a new one, so it takes a little bit of effort to get one, buts its certainly not unique or a head turner. I totally agree that to the uninitiated all 911's look the same, but if you like them, you'll know the difference. If they were less common I believe they'd have the same head turning pwoer of a classic Mustang, they are a truly unique shape.
No, the reason I am interested in one, appart from thinking they look beautiful, is the driving experienece, they are an exhillerating drive, seat of your pants stuff, stick to the corners like they are on rails. Also the fact that when I was 19 I promised myself I'd have one by the time I was 30, I'm almost 34 now.
I'm not interested in getting one to modify. Thats not my bag. They go like a bat out of hell straight from the factory. I like them as they were built although I totally understand the Resto-Mustang thing and think the modern suspension upgrades and improvements for the Mustang are a no-brainer.
You guys have to appreciate that in Ireland your local Lidl (similar to Wallmart) will have nothing but VW Golfs, Nissan Micras, Mitsubishi Colts and a few Passats. Insurance In Ireland is among the most expensive in the world, so there arent many big engined cars here. My insurance quote for the 911 is 2,200 euros, which is around $2,700, and thats cheap for such a car. My friends 968 cabriolet is 2500. My 1999 Audi A6 18.T costs me 1200. My father is 60 years of age and his insurance in his Nissan 300ZX was 1500 euros and his Jaguar XK8 costs him 800 euros!!! Madness.
I do agree though that a 911 is a display of wealth, and I'll admit that's probably the only thing I dont like about them. Believe it or not my Mustang is worth around $30,000 in Ireland, but no-one knows that, so they dont think i'm a rich b*****d crusin around. I can afford to spend 38k euros on a car and I make no appologies for that. If that pi***s someone off, tough, I work hard for my money.
Not sure what else to say about this subject. I didnt really expect to find any allies on this board, but i do appreciate all of your comments. I'm going to keep looking for the right 911 and keep driving the Mustang. When it comes to the crunch, who knows what'll happen. If I do buy a 911 i'll post a picture of it here for all of you to spit at. That'd be a nice pic actually, my Mustang side by side with my 911, however brief the ownership of both may be.
Out of curiosity what is a very very clean 68 GT Fastback in factory highland green worth in the US these days, surely no more than $20-25,000?
No, the reason I am interested in one, appart from thinking they look beautiful, is the driving experienece, they are an exhillerating drive, seat of your pants stuff, stick to the corners like they are on rails. Also the fact that when I was 19 I promised myself I'd have one by the time I was 30, I'm almost 34 now.
I'm not interested in getting one to modify. Thats not my bag. They go like a bat out of hell straight from the factory. I like them as they were built although I totally understand the Resto-Mustang thing and think the modern suspension upgrades and improvements for the Mustang are a no-brainer.
You guys have to appreciate that in Ireland your local Lidl (similar to Wallmart) will have nothing but VW Golfs, Nissan Micras, Mitsubishi Colts and a few Passats. Insurance In Ireland is among the most expensive in the world, so there arent many big engined cars here. My insurance quote for the 911 is 2,200 euros, which is around $2,700, and thats cheap for such a car. My friends 968 cabriolet is 2500. My 1999 Audi A6 18.T costs me 1200. My father is 60 years of age and his insurance in his Nissan 300ZX was 1500 euros and his Jaguar XK8 costs him 800 euros!!! Madness.
I do agree though that a 911 is a display of wealth, and I'll admit that's probably the only thing I dont like about them. Believe it or not my Mustang is worth around $30,000 in Ireland, but no-one knows that, so they dont think i'm a rich b*****d crusin around. I can afford to spend 38k euros on a car and I make no appologies for that. If that pi***s someone off, tough, I work hard for my money.
Not sure what else to say about this subject. I didnt really expect to find any allies on this board, but i do appreciate all of your comments. I'm going to keep looking for the right 911 and keep driving the Mustang. When it comes to the crunch, who knows what'll happen. If I do buy a 911 i'll post a picture of it here for all of you to spit at. That'd be a nice pic actually, my Mustang side by side with my 911, however brief the ownership of both may be.
Out of curiosity what is a very very clean 68 GT Fastback in factory highland green worth in the US these days, surely no more than $20-25,000?
Hack
15 Year Member
I guess I misunderstood your earlier post that I quoted in my post. I don't have a problem with people who have money. I also don't have a problem with those who just want to buy a car and drive it. They are just different from me, that's all. I'm sorry if I came across as trying to insult you or your decisions. That was not my intent.Brian68GT said:
If you want a stock car that drives great, the Porshe is by far superior to a Mustang. I think you should sell the Mustang right away and start looking for a Porshe. From what I've read, it sounds like the Porshe fits your wants and needs much better than the Mustang. I can understand the want to have a great handling car - life is too short to drive a slow car!
Since the Porshe you're looking at will be 15 years old, you might want to price out a suspension rebuild and add that to the price of the car. I would be willing to bet that it will make a world of difference.
Good luck!
Hack, I wasnt even remotely offended by your post and for the most part I agree, for many people a 911 is just a display of wealth. The point I was making is this, if thats how someone wants to see me when I'm in a Porsche, thats ok with me, it took a very long time to get to the point where I can afford one, and i make no excuses. But I wasnt taking a dig at you.
With regards to the front wheel drive issue. Not sure what you were referring to there, I may have picked you up wrong but 911's, in fact ALL Posrche's to the best of my knowledge, are rear wheel drive and some are 4 wheel drive.
With regards to the front wheel drive issue. Not sure what you were referring to there, I may have picked you up wrong but 911's, in fact ALL Posrche's to the best of my knowledge, are rear wheel drive and some are 4 wheel drive.
Hack
15 Year Member
Good. I'm glad you weren't offended.Brian68GT said:
The point I was making when I brought up front wheel drive cars is that it's more difficult to work on an engine/trans/drivetrain when all the pieces are packed into one end of the car. The rear-engine Porshes have the engine, transmission, drive axles, etc all packed into a small area. I've never worked on one, so I have no idea what they're like to work on. I just brought it up as a possible factor in your decision. Some cars might allow you to change the clutch in an hour or two, whereas other cars might require 10 plus hours.
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