1969 Mustang export brace follow up questions

[jerry S]

This is a follow-up to an earlier post. I was at the mechanic today. My global west tubular steel export brace does not fit on the driver's side by about one inch. The shock tower has sagged backwards towards the windshield and the brace extends forward of the holes by one inch. The mechanic had let the car sit on jack stands placed behind the LCAs did not allow for any movement whatsoever. I said I wanted to take the car to a frame shop but the mechanic said that this risked not having any of the sheet metal line up afterwards. It looks like the passenger side can be made to fit but the driver side is indeed a problem. If I move the shock tower forward an inch, will this indeed throw all the sheet metal alignment off?

 

[2+2GT]

My global west tubular steel export brace does not fit on the driver's side by about one inch.
It would be unusual if an export brace, made properly, would fit a 40 year old car.

The shock tower has sagged backwards towards the windshield and the brace extends forward of the holes by one inch.
I've seen worse.

The mechanic had let the car sit on jack stands placed behind the LCAs did not allow for any movement whatsoever.
Also typical. Try putting the jack stands at the extreme rear of the front rail, below the front edge of the front seat.

I said I wanted to take the car to a frame shop but the mechanic said that this risked not having any of the sheet metal line up afterwards.
True. You should loosen all the bolts on that fender before attempting to attach the brace.

It looks like the passenger side can be made to fit but the driver side is indeed a problem. If I move the shock tower forward an inch, will this indeed throw all the sheet metal alignment off?
You'd be surprised how much "give" there is in the aprons and tower. You need to be careful when re-tightening the bolts, I have seen the tops of 69-70 fenders warp when overtightened.

 

[unrealmach1]

I went with the MPG braces. They are adjustable. The are a lot like the TCP braces, but cheaper.

 

[S-Car-Go]

The jack stands NEED to be further back than the fire-wall or you're not going to move anything. You're relying on the weight of the car to sag forward between the shock tower and fire-wall. Jack it up again and let it sit for ~24 hr and they usually fit pretty good.

 

[2+2GT]

The jack stands NEED to be further back than the fire-wall or you're not going to move anything. You're relying on the weight of the car to sag forward between the shock tower and fire-wall. Jack it up again and let it sit for ~24 hr and they usually fit pretty good.

Or you could get a couple of heavy friends to sit on the front bumper and skip the wait.

 

[jerry S]

The jack stands NEED to be further back than the fire-wall or you're not going to move anything. You're relying on the weight of the car to sag forward between the shock tower and fire-wall. Jack it up again and let it sit for ~24 hr and they usually fit pretty good.

I have new torque boxes, Global West subframe connectors and jacking rails. The mechanic says that this has made the frame so stiff that it won't move. I am of the opinion that these add-ons parts will not affect the stiffness of the front clip. Doug at GW confirmed this to me.

In any event, my mechanic had the car on a lift with the support arms behind where the LCAs connect to the shock tower for 2 weeks with no movement whatsoever. He even strapped down the front end and got no movement.

If I am certain that I can get one inch of movement from the driver's side tower without affecting how the sheet metal lines up, I will do that. My mechanic says not to worry as long as the car is straight and can be aligned. He has a four wheel alignment machine with cameras and lasers and he says straight is straight even if the export brace doesn't fit. He says that if the car is straight and can be aligned, he will cut the bar to make it fit and powder coat it such that nobody will ever know. I would prefer to make the car fit the bar, not make the bar fit the car. If I can move that driver's side shock tower forward by one inch without messing up the sheet metal, I would prefer to do that.

 

[2+2GT]

I have new torque boxes, Global West subframe connectors and jacking rails. The mechanic says that this has made the frame so stiff that it won't move. I am of the opinion that these add-ons parts will not affect the stiffness of the front clip. Doug at GW confirmed this to me.

Then the shop that installed them is incompetent. The car should have been forced back to OE dimensions as part of that installation. The Mustang experts I know install a Ford export brace at the beginning of such repairs and upgrades, as part of the chassis alignment. As to the "won't move" part, I know shops that straighten truck frames. "Won't move" means it didn't drop into place by itself.

In any event, my mechanic had the car on a lift with the support arms behind where the LCAs connect to the shock tower for 2 weeks with no movement whatsoever. He even strapped down the front end and got no movement.

Time is not a factor in such things. It's not a wooden car, it's a steel car. If waiting a day, or week, or month would cause sag, parked cars would all be sagging in the middle.

If I am certain that I can get one inch of movement from the driver's side tower without affecting how the sheet metal lines up, I will do that.

Fender alignment is really not hard.

My mechanic says not to worry as long as the car is straight and can be aligned. He has a four wheel alignment machine with cameras and lasers and he says straight is straight even if the export brace doesn't fit. He says that if the car is straight and can be aligned, he will cut the bar to make it fit and powder coat it such that nobody will ever know. I would prefer to make the car fit the bar, not make the bar fit the car. If I can move that driver's side shock tower forward by one inch without messing up the sheet metal, I would prefer to do that.

"four wheel alignment machine with cameras and lasers" are quite common now, the local Sears has three of them.

I have installed a lot of export braces, and I can tell you a 1/2"-1" deflection in the shock tower is pretty normal. I'd loosen the fender bolts, stick a Port-A-Power on it, push the tower back to where it belongs, re-tighten the fender bolts, and be done with it.

My advice would give you a straight car.

 

[chillininnh]

I agree with 2+2GT, it's unfortunate his advise is delivered with such a dickish attitude.

 

[2+2GT]

I agree with 2+2GT, it's unfortunate his advise is delivered with such a dickish attitude.

I'm working on it. Should have had coffee before writing. How's my comments look now?

 

[jerry S]

I have installed a lot of export braces, and I can tell you a 1/2"-1" deflection in the shock tower is pretty normal. I'd loosen the fender bolts, stick a Port-A-Power on it, push the tower back to where it belongs, re-tighten the fender bolts, and be done with it.

My advice would give you a straight car. [/I]

How do I use a Port-A-Power to bring the shock towers forward by 1 inch? I know how they are used to spread the towers farther apart but how do they bring a tower that has sagged back towards the firewall (as opposed to sagging in towards the other shock tower)?

As for the sub frames and torque boxes being installed in a half ass manner, those were done in the US before I got the car over here. We are working with what we have.

 

[2+2GT]

How do I use a Port-A-Power to bring the shock towers forward by 1 inch? I know how they are used to spread the towers farther apart but how do they bring a tower that has sagged back towards the firewall (as opposed to sagging in towards the other shock tower)?

As for the sub frames and torque boxes being installed in a half ass manner, those were done in the US before I got the car over here. We are working with what we have.

Bummer. I know what it's like, I work with people who have received cars from the US. Best thing is to import from, or at least through, reliable people in the US. Let me know if you need a point of contact.

You said the right side lines up. Good. Loosely attach the center of the brace at the center of the cowl. Very loosely, with plenty of 'slop'. Lower the ends onto the shock towers, and attach the brace to the RH tower, also loosely. If get this far this easily, you are ahead of average. Put a floor jack under the extreme rear end of the LH frame rail extension, below the front edge of the driver seat. Raise the car until BOTH left tires are off the ground. If you don't get at least 1/2", I'm impressed by the stiffness. Try adding weight to the front left corner, at the bumper bracket. A 'come-along' to a floor anchor works well, or to an anvil or old engine block works, too. A Port-A-Power between the firewall/cowl and tower could easily move it too far, brace it well at the cowl to spread the load. The rear fender apron should easily have enough 'give' to get you where you need to go. Sometimes a strong wood prybar through the brace into the shock tower is really all you need. I have only needed the Port-A-Power a couple of times.

 

[bnickel]

yeah 1" on the driver side is really nothing at all. mine had sagged between 1"-2" in on each side towards each other and the passenger side had also sagged in toward the firwewall at least an inch, the driver side had sagged a little as well but less than 1/2" so it lined it lined up pretty well that way and this is on a basically rust free car that had never been in any major accidents, a couple very minmor fender benders though. i think the problem with mine was that it sat and was driven for many years without the factory shock braces attached at all, even those puny little things do help believe it or not.

 

[jerry S]

yeah 1" on the driver side is really nothing at all. mine had sagged between 1"-2" in on each side towards each other and the passenger side had also sagged in toward the firwewall at least an inch, the driver side had sagged a little as well but less than 1/2" so it lined it lined up pretty well that way and this is on a basically rust free car that had never been in any major accidents, a couple very minmor fender benders though. i think the problem with mine was that it sat and was driven for many years without the factory shock braces attached at all, even those puny little things do help believe it or not.

After you got the export brace to fit, did you have any trouble with the sheet metal lining up or the door closing? My mechanic thinks that the new torque boxes and subframes will prevent any movement but Doug at GW says no, that these do nothing to affect the front clip.

 

[mustbereel]

Doug at GW says no, that these do nothing to affect the front clip.

That doesn't make sense to me. The inner aprons and shock towers are anchored to the front subframe. Once the front subframe has been welded to the subframe connectors and torque boxes it is not likely to move easily.

If the torque boxes and SBC were welded with the shock tower out of place then that is likely where it will remain. Since you are dealing with a unibody if you start pushing and pulling in one area you will affect other areas.

I like 2+2GT's suggestion of using a floor jack to gently twist the the car back into shape. I think if you try too hard to "fix" it you will cause more problems.

Bottom line; if you have a 40 year old Mustang, on which the body panels are aligned and the suspension can be aligned, you are in good shape. I wouldn't be afraid of modifying the GW export brace to match the car.

 

[jerry S]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I guess I will just have the bar be made to fit the car and be happy with it.

 

[bnickel]

i did have to realign the fenders a little bit but nothing i couldn't handle, they didn't really move that much believe it or not. personally, i agree with Doug at GW, the SFC's and torque boxes won't have much of an effect on spreading the car back apart. it's actually more likely that you have either body or suspension alignment problems you aren't aware of and your mechanic hasn't noticed. i would make sure the car is square rather than trying to make the bar fit the car.

these cars ahd a little tolerance when they were new but they also had certain specs that they had to fit within, if they didn't fit within those specs then the body was rejected and sent back to either be redone or scrapped

 

[2+2GT]

I have to agree. I have seen shock tower movement of 1/2" or more require no fender adjustment at all. Of course, all of this is provided you remember to loosen or remove the top fender bolts before you start. Leaving them tight would be a "problem".