1979 Turbo Cobra

[Mustang power]

Hi,

I'm fairly new to the 2.3 stuff but I picked up an original 1979 Mustang Cobra Turbo from the first owner.
The car has 122000km (75000mls) and is very well maintained.
The previous owner changed oil every 3500-4000 km's (2200-2500mls), I paid $600 for this ride.
I'm planning to get this thing running on liquid gas (LPG is quite popular here in Europe because it's less then half the price of regular fuel).
The good thing about LPG is it's high octane rating (+110), the downside is that carburated cars loose about 10%hp.
The question is how to get at least the 10% hp loss back?
What is the difference between the 79 and later 2.3 turbo engines?
Are the Sierra and Escort 2000 engines from the same engine family?

Cheers,
Edwin
the Netherlands

 

[fasda1]

Pick up a LA3 computer and harness, and the upper intake from an 87 - and up 2.3. You could probably buy a hole 87-and up 2.3t engine for 150.usd

also check out turboford.org, lots of info there

 

[RustBucket]

fasda, that '79 is a carbureted motor. An LA3, upper intake and the lot won't do him much good other than take up space on a workbench.


Nice find!! And the price is great too especially if its in the condition you say its in. Wow.

I don't think it would be too difficult to reclaim some lost horsepower. With the colder fuel (higher octane) I would think that upping the boost wouldn't be a problem. Manual boost controllers are relatively cheap, cheaper if you make your own. To me that would be the quickest, simplest way to increase power. Some fuel and ignition tuning may be necessary after turning up the boost. If you don't get over zealous with the boost and are mindful of detonation, you should be just fine.

I would think that an intercooler would help, but I don't know how it would treat the wet charge that a draw through system has.

There's much more that can be done. The deciding factors are budget, skill, and how far you're willing to deviate from the car's original configuration. Judging by your plan to use liquid propane, the latter isn't an issue

Congratulations on the new car and I hope you enjoy it.

EDIT: To answer more of your questions.

The later model turbo charged 2.3's were EFI and EEC-IV engine management. I believe your '79 has the Duraspark ignition.

There were different heads, intakes, exhaust manifolds, and turbos used.
The differences vary between model year, application, and transmission. As Fasda said, the best info on turbocharged 2.3's is at TurboFord

 

[88stangmangt]

we have carbed nissan motors her set up for LP and they are deff less powerfull. IMO if you out for good gas milage you picked the wrong car.

 

[Mustang power]

I never said anything about gas milage, the only reason that I'm concidering LPG is because it would cost me abot $2,26 a galon compared to $5,98 for regular fuel.
The gas milage wil be down to about 10% as well but that does not count up against the savings on fuel price.
The only thing I'm intrested in is how to gain some extra power so it will be at least as strong as before adding LPG.

What I'm also intrested in is if this engine has forged internals, or am I better of with a later non turbo EFI engine and add a turbo onto that.
The biggest downside on this early engines is that the turbo is mounted directly onto the intake manifold so there is no room for an intercooler without putting the turbo elswere.

Regards,
Edwin

 

[Mike SVOR]

Pick up a LA3 computer and harness, and the upper intake from an 87 - and up 2.3. You could probably buy a hole 87-and up 2.3t engine for 150.usd

also check out turboford.org, lots of info there

BAN!!!

 

[Mike SVOR]

I never said anything about gas milage, the only reason that I'm concidering LPG is because it would cost me abot $2,26 a galon compared to $5,98 for regular fuel.
The gas milage wil be down to about 10% as well but that does not count up against the savings on fuel price.
The only thing I'm intrested in is how to gain some extra power so it will be at least as strong as before adding LPG.

What I'm also intrested in is if this engine has forged internals, or am I better of with a later non turbo EFI engine and add a turbo onto that.
The biggest downside on this early engines is that the turbo is mounted directly onto the intake manifold so there is no room for an intercooler without putting the turbo elswere.

Regards,
Edwin

Dude, your best bet would be to take your carb off completely and see about a professional LP injection system.
You could make LOTS of hp using LP. You just have to buy the good injection system and turn the boost up.

 

[Mustang power]

The LP injection sounds nice but then I'm better of buying one of the European 16valve cosworth engines and convert that to LPG.
Those engine make also good HP, I've seen them over 450HP out of a 2 litre.
But that's not my plan.
http://www.wrc-cosworth.org/tech/tuning/tuning.html

I would like to take the engine out to change all gaskets and do a little tuning.
I don't want to spend loads of money on this car.

 

[Anlushac11]

As to your original question, yes it has forged pistons.

IIRC the carb is a Holley 5200, basically a Weber 32/36 DGEV.

cam is stock and If I recall correctly it should have Duraspark II ignition system.

I am a big fan of the carb turbo 2.3L motors. If tuned and tweaked properly they can be very strong runners.

Treat a carb turbo 2.3L the same as a EFI motor from the intake down. You just have to keep the crossover pipe hot to keep the exhaust gases hot to keep pressure up which keeps turbo lag to a minimum.

Some tweaks are to make a larger crossunder pipe and/or have your crossunder pipe jet hot coated to retain heat to help throttle response.

You should also get a 2.5" exhaust sytem with a free flowing cat and muffler.

I have never ran LP except on a forklift at a place I used to work, ironically the motor was a Ford and looked similar to a 2.3L 4 cylinder.

Best of luck and would like to hear how it will run on LP. I have 2 I6 Fox body Mustangs and lots of the Aussie guys are running LP for the same reasons you lited and they can get good performance out of them.

 

[Mustang power]

Do you know what the maximsm horsepower is that these carbed engines can handle before they break down?
Is the boost adjustable on these turbo's?

 

[Anlushac11]

Do you know what the maximsm horsepower is that these carbed engines can handle before they break down?
Is the boost adjustable on these turbo's?

How much horsepower and torque can a fuel injected turbo 2.3L handle? The mods I had planned with the 79 Mustang carb turbo I had estimated would put me in the 225-250 RWHP range. The drawback is I see carb turbos limited to about 16lbs of boost with the stock setup. The EFI guys have more leeway to swap and tweak turbo's so 30lbs boost is not unheard of. I suppose if you knew someone who could rebuild one you could get a custom carb turbo T3/T4 hybrid made. That would raise how much boost could be made.

I do think that the intake tracts airflow would start becoming a limiting factor after18-20lbs boost.

remove the intake and exhaust manifold and there is little difference between the two motors other than the carb turbo's higher static compression ratio.

The carb turbo had 9.0:1CR forged flat top pistons and if I recall correctly the EFI turbo's had 8.5:1 ratio forged dished pistons.

The carb turbo's boost is sorta adjustable. The control rod from the vacuum cannister to the turbo can be lengthened or shortened to raise or lower boost. The easiest way is to get one of the boost bleed off valves for the carb turbo 2.3L's.

If I still had my 79 2.3L carb turbo this is what I would do.

Quality rebuild bottom end with ARP main and rod bolts, good quality bearings. I would also get the rotating assembly custom balanced. I would also pay attention to improving the rods by the usual hot rod preps or getting a set of aftermarket rods. A longer rod with a shorter compression height wouldnt hurt either.

I would also use late model forged dished pistons. The dish pistons and the greater volume allows for better volumetric filling effeciency. When the air-fuel charge rushes into the larger volume it rushes in with a little more momentum so it packs the cylinder better meaning opportunity to make more power.

I think the Ford Duraspark is nice but a MD box would be better.

A roller cam that is designed specially for a turbo motor and a set of roller followers would be a must.

The carb turbo would love a ported and polished head as much as any 2.3L turbo.

Also get the multi keyway cam sprocket and run the cam straight up. Stock from Ford the cams are retarded a number of degrees to reduce emissions. I am not a big fan of the adjustable cam pulleys as every single one I have seen slips in time and has to be readjusted. My dad had a set on his Pinto and he eventually took it of as he got tired of constantly messing with it.

You can port the cast iron exhaust manifold or try and adapt a Ranger tubular shorty header but either should be Jet Hot coated to keep exhaust heat in the manifold to keep the exhaust pressure up to reduce turbo lag.

The carb turbo cant run a intercooler but Im guessing that when the LP does its phase change from a liquid to a gas it will cool the intake tract.

I have no experience with LP so I have no suggestions on the induction side.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Do you know what the maximsm horsepower is that these carbed engines can handle before they break down?
Is the boost adjustable on these turbo's?

Many would tell you that 400-450hp is about as far as you would want to go on the stock bottom end.

I have no idea what a carbed turbo engine looks like so I can't make any recommendations on what to do about relocating the turbo and/or using an intercooler. To turn up the boost, just install a boost control/bleed valve in the tube between the wastegate actuator and the compressor. Lots of people either use adjustable air regulators or purpose-built valves.

The problem with propane is not only that it has a much lower caloric value than gasoline, but also that it is gaseous. It actually displaces alot of air. To get around that, you have to increase the boost and the high octane allows for that.

 

[Anlushac11]

The '79 Carb turbo is not anything like a EFI turbo as far as the plumbing is concerned.

The exhaust pipe comes off the stock n/a style exhaust manifold and then GOES UNDER the engine to the turbo which is positioned on the intake maifold behind the carb. the turbo's compressor outlet blows directly into the intake manifold. There is no way to mount a intercooler. You can however use water injection to the same effect.