1996 GT - VERY Persistent Cranking Problem! Please Help!

Boss Hoss

New Member
Dec 20, 2012
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Hello Everyone from a new member!

Boy, do I have a DOOZIE of a problem for you to solve...

This problem is almost FIVE YEARS OLD now, with no end in sight. I call this problem the “CLICK CLICK” problem.

THE PROBLEM: My 1996 Mustang GT has a PERSISTENT cranking problem. You turn the key, and all you hear is a loud "CLICK" coming from the starter. You keep turning the key, and you keep hearing the "CLICK"...just when you are about to decide that the battery is bad, the car will start...but the starter turns somewhat slowly...just fast enough to start the car.

Here’s the weird part: This problem has almost NO PATTERN AT ALL. Sometimes the car can go for months with NO starting issues at all...and then, without warning, the car has problems EVERY TIME you try to start it...the engine can be COLD...the engine can be HOT...it doesn't matter.

POSSIBLE PATTERN #1: I said that the problem has "ALMOST" no pattern...after literally YEARS of suffering with this problem, I have finally managed to detect a pattern...the problem is MUCH WORSE when the weather is COLD. When the weather is warm (spring/summer), the problem is better, but does NOT go away completely. The past two days in my area have seen temperatures in the high 30's/low 40's...car absolutely WOULD NOT start, even after turning the key literally hundreds of times. I got nothing but “CLICK”. I had to resort to push-starting it. Then we had a day where the temperature climbed into the 60's, and the car started the first time I turned the key ALMOST EVERY TIME...


POSSIBLE PATTERN #2: If I start the car and drive it for 30 minutes or more, shut it off, and then start it up again IMMEDIATELY without waiting for more than just a few minutes, it will start right up. However, if I only drive it for 5 or 10 minutes and shut it off, it gives me “CLICK CLICK”. Also, if the car is allowed to sit overnight, it will always give me “CLICK CLICK” in the mornings…and on cold mornings, the car must be push-started…my hand simply gets too tired to turn the key that many times!!!

I HAVE REPLACED THE FOLLOWING:

1 -- Battery. I just put a brand new Sears DieHard battery in the car a week ago (590 cold cranking amps)...I got CLICK the very first time I tried the new battery!!!!!

2 -- Starter (MULTIPLE TIMES)

3 -- Ignition switch

4 -- Starter relay


5 -- Negative battery cable (this cable connects negative battery terminal to engine block)

ALTERNATOR HAS BEEN TESTED MULTIPLE TIMES....ALWAYS TESTS GOOD
CLUTCH SAFETY SWITCH HAS BEEN EXAMINED....NO PROBLEMS ARE APPARENT

I am ready to conclude that enough VOLTAGE is getting to the starter, but NOT enough CURRENT. Something (and I don't know what) seems to be preventing enough CURRENT from getting to the starter. When you repeatedly turn the key and hear the CLICK, I think that the starter is gradually rotating to a spot that the weak CURRENT can finally make the starter spin. Keep in mind, when the starter DOES spin, it doesn't sound like it is really getting the jolt that it needs...especially when you consider a BRAND NEW Sears battery with 590 cold cranking amps is powering it.

I NEED EXPERT ELECTRICAL HELP HERE, and I am willing to go to a local shop, but I want to be armed with good solid information before I go!

Any...and I mean ANY...tips/information/solutions/prayers will be MUCH appreciated!!!!!!!!
 
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It sounds like you're on the right track in that you have a current problem. Or perhaps more accurately, you have a voltage drop problem due to a high resistance in the starter circuit.

A couple of ideas to try:

1) When the car "clicks", measure the voltage across the battery terminals. Re-do the measurement between the battery positive terminal and the engine block.
2) If you can, put a test lead on the battery terminal of the starter and repeat the test above, measuring the voltage between that terminal and the negative battery terminal when you hear the click.

The one thing I don't see being replaced or at least inspected is the large AWG wire between the battery positive terminal and the starter. Have you checked for loose or corroded crimp ends on this wire?
 
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Thanks for your input, trinity_gt.

The large wire between the battery's positive terminal and the starter is my next project. I have replaced the battery terminal connector on this wire, but I must say that the problem was unchanged before AND after I did this.

I have measured the voltage across the battery terminals during the "CLICK". Voltage drops, but not enough to bottom out. I measured 11.1 volts. I had someone else measure the terminals while I turned AND HELD the key.

I am almost convinced that it is the positive battery cable that connects to the starter. I have not examined the length of this wire, but I can tell you that it is the original wire, so it is a prime candidate for replacement. I can't wait to take this wire out of the car and really examine it for corrosion. The original negative cable had some corrosion on it.

Someone told me that it is very possible that the positive wire is corroded enough to allow voltage but not current. My own personal theory is this: When I continually try to start the car (click, click, click--literally dozens and DOZENS of times, I'm not kidding you), the positive wire heats up just barely enough to allow enough current to finally hit the starter. Then, when I drive the car, the engine heat (along with the continuous charge flowing through the wire) is just hot enough to keep the wire heated up well enough so that I can start the car easily when I shut it off...but only if the car is not left alone too long. If the car is left alone too long, everything cools down too much to allow the current to flow, and I have to start heating the wire all over again.

What do you think of my "theory"? Too crazy? Or possible?
 
Someone told me that it is very possible that the positive wire is corroded enough to allow voltage but not current.

It would depend on the measurement conditions. If you were to measure the voltage at the starter with the key off you'd see, say, 12.5V whether the battery cable was 6AWG all the way down or was cut such that just one 36AWG strand held the two halves together.

However, if you tried to crank the car then you'd see the difference. Assuming the 36AWG didn't just fry like a fuse you'd see a large voltage drop across it. The voltage at the terminal while cranking will drop a lot if there's a lot of resistance in that wire.

Voltage, resistance and current are all interrelated by Ohm's Law: V = I*R. More importantly, I = V/R. If R is high, I will be necessarily low.

My own personal theory is this: When I continually try to start the car (click, click, click--literally dozens and DOZENS of times, I'm not kidding you), the positive wire heats up just barely enough to allow enough current to finally hit the starter. Then, when I drive the car, the engine heat (along with the continuous charge flowing through the wire) is just hot enough to keep the wire heated up well enough so that I can start the car easily when I shut it off...but only if the car is not left alone too long. If the car is left alone too long, everything cools down too much to allow the current to flow, and I have to start heating the wire all over again.

What do you think of my "theory"? Too crazy? Or possible?

Heat technically causes the resistance of most metals to actually increase, not decrease. However, heat can also cause parts to expand and move relative to one another which may "tighten" up a loose crimp just that little bit. Vibration can also do this.
 
YES!

My 1996 Mustang GT five-year-old starting/cranking issue has FINALLY been solved!

:banana:

I won't keep everyone in suspense a moment longer:

It was my positive battery cable that links the positive battery terminal to the starter!

I finally had enough of turning my key literally dozens and dozens (upward of a hundred) times.

So I finally managed to start the car and got it up on ramps. I started removal of the positive battery cable by going straight to the starter first. That's where I was shocked to see that the end of the cable that is attached to the starter was *extremely* frayed. I am not exaggerating when I say that fully HALF of the wire strands were broken away from the connector, leaving only half of the cable still inside the crimped part of the connector. Basically, I have been trying--for years, mind you--to start this car with only half of the main starter cable actually attached to the starter! It's a miracle I was ever able to start the car at all! The cable seems to have frayed out of old age...and I'm sure that all of those starter swaps only made things worse.

The thing that makes me angry is that the last time I changed the starter--in a vain attempt to address this starting issue--I was living in an apartment with no tools and therefore couldn't do the work myself. So I had a NAPA service center install the new starter. This was within the last 2 years. There is no question in my mind that 1) the NAPA service center should have seen the damaged/worn out cable, and 2) they should have known themselves that this cable couldn't carry enough current in the sorry state it was in, and finally 3) they should have notified me about the situation so I could make the judgement on whether or not to have it repaired/replaced.

Well, it doesn't matter now. This #$%&@ cranking issue has been solved...finally at at last! I know some of you were probably sick of me going on and on about this problem. I can only hope that somebody can learn from my experience.

I replaced the positive battery cable, and the car starts like a brand new car again! Absolutely NO issues whatsoever. A big Thank You goes out to everyone who has given me tips and advice!

Merry Christmas to you all! :)

P.S. -- The rest of the old positive cable actually looked pretty good. I stripped off all the insulation and found no corrosion or anything. The problem seems to have been just the frayed/broken wiring at the end of the cable attached to the starter.
 
Thanks, trinity!

But I can't say she is actually running like she should, just yet! Now that I have that problem out of the way, I am trying to deal with some pretty severe coolant leaks around my intake manifold. (See my other post!)