2001 gt won't turn over after some work

help

jomull55 said:

alright guys here's the scoop. the dealer still didn't have it fixed so i told them to roll it outside so i could have it towed (as i expected) he told me the tech was telling him he thought it was a timing issue. which i thought also. theres no way im gonna let them tear my timing cover off to tell me i need a new head ect. but anyways if someone can point me in the right direction to check my timing and set it right i think ill have this thing on the road soon

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hey now you will learn 2 things,,,,1 STANGNET ROCKS,,,,,2 how to fix your car....i have a ford service manual and if you shoot me a pm with email i can pass it on..caution its very large and might be allittle much at first,,,but its what your looking for...my suggestion for you is acouple of guys will send you stuff,,,read word to word ,,take your time and read...get a good understanding on how the car works...see how much you can do before pulling front cover,,,good luck

Concerning the use of Silicone!

If you don't have the info concerning the area's where the silicone should be applied, here it is. If you need any other information let me know. I'll be glad to look for it. Good luck, Tommy.

Installation




Here's another diagram that I got from AutoZone. Looks a little better.





Apply silicone gasket and sealant in the locations shown.

First thing to check is to see if you have spark, AND also if you have fuel firing from you injectors. The reason I say this, is because if neither one of them is firing then you deffinatly have one of three things. 1) either a bad crank or cam sensor. 2) the crank/ cam sensor is not reading properly, so the triggering device might be missing/broken. If the car has no signal from these sensors, it has no reference on when to open injectors/fire plugs, so it doesn't do either. 3) PATS system is prohibiting car from firing. Hope this helps.

if you are following

Smokeurhonda said:

First thing to check is to see if you have spark, AND also if you have fuel firing from you injectors. The reason I say this, is because if neither one of them is firing then you deffinatly have one of three things. 1) either a bad crank or cam sensor. 2) the crank/ cam sensor is not reading properly, so the triggering device might be missing/broken. If the car has no signal from these sensors, it has no reference on when to open injectors/fire plugs, so it doesn't do either. 3) PATS system is prohibiting car from firing. Hope this helps.

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this is a long story,,but in short ,,,he took car to dealer,,dealer replaced battery,,,car must have cranked cause than the dealer put in new plugs,,,,,i would rule out pats...the crankshaft sensor wheel could be on backwards...from what ive read it only sends a signal to pcm to tell piston position...cam shaft sensor sends signal to fire injectors and spark.he said he did do something to timing chains but didnt say if he pulled them off,,,setting these are easy but because its backwards it gets confusing..example when looking at engine and reading instructions it says set rh cam at 11 oclock,,,well that passengerside head and thats on your left when looking at engine?I learned that the easy way ,watch some guy who claimed to be a mechanic do a 5.4 like 10 times,,the customer took it elsewere and sued the shop,, i did mine and its dohc ,,i made sure i read all the instructions ,,

The time wheels of the Romeo engines cannot be put in backwards unless you want it to tear up the timing chains. If his car was built after Feb. 01, then his should have the wheel with teeth that can only face towards the timing chain cover.

sprocket

mogs01gt said:

The time wheels of the Romeo engines cannot be put in backwards unless you want it to tear up the timing chains. If his car was built after Feb. 01, then his should have the wheel with teeth that can only face towards the timing chain cover.

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thats what i thought also,,untill on another mustang site thier was a guy with an 03 cobra,,,a shop put his on backwards,,his car ran but lacked power...he sent his to the dealer and they pulled cover to find this out...this dude was mad..i would have been too....

story on crankshaft timing sprocket

mogs01gt said:

The time wheels of the Romeo engines cannot be put in backwards unless you want it to tear up the timing chains. If his car was built after Feb. 01, then his should have the wheel with teeth that can only face towards the timing chain cover.

Click to expand...

here is that story ,,,,,,,,,,,Difeo Ford found my power - SVTPerformance

Runs bad after resetting the timing for the second time?

jomull55 said:

alright guys, i have the car back from the dealership because i was tired of paying them to get nowhere. im sure someone can help me out. tonight i tore it back down and re-set the timing. i was just about positive that it was just about perfect. but when i get it all back together and go to fire it up it wont start untill i go wot. it will run if i keep it going with a bit of gas, but it doesn't run well. it will die out if you get out of the gas...... any ideas?
these are the instructions i used to set the timing
How to set the timing on the 4

Click to expand...

Are you saying that the way you set the timing chain the first time, it was wrong? If that is the case, I'm wondering if any of your valves got bent with the first timing chain setting. Do you know if this engine is an interferrence engine or not? Does the engine back fire when trying to rev it? Other than that, I would say you have to check to see how much fuel pressure you are getting at the fuel rail. Don't give up, sooner or later your problem will get resolved. Just a matter of taking the right steps and checking the right area's. Hang in there! Good luck, Tommy.

Ford Interference Engines!

I found some info on Ford Interference engines. Here is a listing of those engines. Look at the Crown Victoria. I think that this engine may be the same as yours. One way to check for sure, is to do a compression test. If you can't pick up the proper compression on various cylinders, than you know for sure. Hope this is not the case. Good luck, Tommy.

Ford Probe Engine >> INTERFERENCE ENGINES


Interference Engines

The AERA Technical Committee would like to offer the following information on engines that present the possibility of interference between pistons and valves. The interference or contact may bend valve(s) when the timing between the camshaft and crankshaft is interrupted. This is generally the result of a timing belt or chain breaking or slipping.

The following list are engines that AERA is currently aware of that have exhibited interference. There may be other engines that are not listed below that have the possibility of piston to valve contact. If the engine you are working on is not listed, do not assume that it is a freewheeling design. It is suggested to add to this listing as additional information is obtained.

FORD
1981-85 1.6L Escort, EXP
1981-83 1.6L LN7, Lynx
1984-85 2.0L Escort, Tempo
1993-95 2.0L Probe
1986-88 2.0L Ranger
1984-87 2.0L Lynx, Topaz Diesel
1985 2.2L Ranger
1989-92 2.2L Probe
1986-88 2.3L Ranger
1986-87 2.3L Diesel Ranger
1991-98 4.6L Crown Victoria

trinity_gt said:

If the car cranks but won't fire after work was done behind the timing cover my first instinct would be to check around the garage, behind doors, on shelves and whatnot for the toothed timing wheel that normally resides behind the cover. If you find it, you've found why you have no fire.

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That is the answer I would personally check right there. the cam shaft sensor picks up of the drivers side cam shaft sprocket but the crank shaft sensor picks up of the "toothed timing wheel" that should be located behind the timing cover on the crankshaft and it should be located in front of the two crank timing sprockets. I have seen numerous times ppl try to do this repair or any repair on the timing system on the 4.6's and either bend the wheel or not even put it in. I would personally remove the a/c compressor and the crank sensor and peak through the hold in the timing cover to see if you see the "toothed sprocket" in there that the sensor picks up from. Also if you haven't checked already check your fuel pressure and make sure you have a spark. also when you set the timing of the vehicle both cams timing marks should not have been in the 12 o'clock position. one is going to be at 12 and the other at 11.

chart#3

jomull55 said:

alright guys, i have the car back from the dealership because i was tired of paying them to get nowhere. im sure someone can help me out. tonight i tore it back down and re-set the timing. i was just about positive that it was just about perfect. but when i get it all back together and go to fire it up it wont start untill i go wot. it will run if i keep it going with a bit of gas, but it doesn't run well. it will die out if you get out of the gas...... any ideas?
these are the instructions i used to set the timing
How to set the timing on the 4

Click to expand...

check this see if this helps?Chart 3
Starting Concerns:
No Start, Normal Crank
Note: Extended cranking because of a no start can load the exhaust system with raw fuel, damaging the catalytic converter after the engine starts. For applications with Secondary Air Injection (AIR) Systems, perform the following after the no start has been repaired: Disconnect the electric secondary air injection (AIR) solid state relay, run the engine until the surplus fuel is used up, and reconnect the relay (disconnecting the relay may set a Continuous Memory PCM DTC that will need to be cleared).



SYSTEM/COMPONENT REFERENCE (Section 5 Pinpoint Test unless noted)
Add-on Anti-Theft Devices
Visual, check with customer.

Fuel/Ignition
Thunderbird and LS6/LS8:
GO to KB85 .
All others:
GO to A1 .

If engine will not start now:
If engine will not start at closed throttle, but will start and run normally at part throttle, check Idle Air Control (IAC) System.
Engine will now start and run normally at part throttle:
GO to KE2

Exhaust System (restrictions)
GO to HF1

Base Engine
Engine System - General Information Section 303 of the Workshop Manual.


Additional Testing
GO to Z1
2003 PCED OBD SECTION 5: Pinpoint Tests
Procedure revision date: 08/19/2002

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KE: Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve KE: Introduction

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KE1 IDLE CONCERNS OR STALLS: RUN KOER SELF-TEST AND OUTPUT CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCS
The Symptom Charts have indicated that there was no change in idle quality when the IAC valve was disconnected.

Retrieve all Continuous Memory DTCs.
Note: If unable to perform KOER Self-Test to completion, GO to KE2 .

Run Key On Engine Running (KOER) Self-Test.
Is DTC P0505, P1504 or P1507 retrieved during KOER Self-Test or from Continuous Memory?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to KE2 . The IAC system is OK. RETURN to Section 3 , Symptom Charts.

KE2 DTC P0505, P1504, P1507 OR STARTS ONLY AT PART THROTTLE: CHECK VPWR VOLTAGE TO IAC VALVE
Note: If EGR DTC P0402 was output during Self Test, diagnose it first before continuing with this Pinpoint Test.

Disconnect IAC valve.
Key on, engine off.
Measure VPWR circuit voltage at the IAC valve harness connector.
Is voltage greater than 10.5 volts?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to KE3 . REPAIR open circuit.

KE3 CHECK IAC VALVE RESISTANCE
IAC valve disconnected.
Measure IAC valve resistance.
Is resistance between 6.0 and 13.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to KE4 . REPLACE IAC valve.

KE4 CHECK IAC VALVE FOR AN INTERNAL SHORT TO IAC CASE
Measure the resistance from either IAC valve pin to IAC valve case.
Is resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
For DTC P1504:

GO to KE7 .

All others:

GO to KE5 . REPLACE IAC valve.

KE5 CHECK AIR INLET FOR PLUGGING OR STUCK IAC PINTLE
Inspect the entire intake air system for debris, blockage and other damage.
Remove and inspect IAC valve, check pintle movement. Check air tubes (if equipped) for blockage and other damage.
Remove and inspect the air cleaner element for excessive dirt.
Is the IAC valve and intake air system OK?
Yes No
RESTORE inlet air system. GO to KE6 . REPLACE IAC valve or repair air inlet as necessary.

KE6 CHECK FOR INLET AIR LEAKS
Key on, engine running.
With engine running at idle, listen for vacuum leaks.
Inspect the entire intake air system from the mass air flow (MAF) sensor to the intake manifold for leaks such as:
Cracked or punctured intake air tube.
Damaged or loose IAC air tubes.
Loose intake air tube at air cleaner housing or throttle body.
IAC valve or gasket seal.
EGR valve gasket seal.
Vacuum supply connector and hose.
PCV valve, connectors and hoses.
Are any leaks detected in the above areas?
Yes No
REPAIR as necessary. KEY OFF. GO to KE7 .

KE7 CHECK IAC CIRCUIT FOR OPEN IN HARNESS
Note: Refer to the PCM connector pin numbers in the beginning of this Pinpoint Test.

IAC valve disconnected.
Disconnect PCM.
Measure resistance of IAC circuit between PCM harness connector pin and IAC valve harness connector.
Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
Yes No
GO to KE8 . REPAIR open circuit.

KE8 CHECK IAC CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO PWR IN HARNESS
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage on IAC circuit between PCM harness connector pin and battery negative post.
Is voltage less than 1.0 volt?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to KE9 . REPAIR short circuit.

KE9 CHECK IAC CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GROUND IN HARNESS
Disconnect scan tool from DLC.
Measure resistance between IAC and PWR GND circuits at the PCM harness connector.
Is each resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
For KOEO or KOER DTC P1504, P0511:

REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) ).

All Others:

GO to KE10 . REPAIR short circuit.

KE10 CHECK IAC SIGNAL FROM PCM
Reconnect PCM and IAC valve.
Note: If stalling occurs place a shim under the hard stop screw to maintain idle conditions).

Key on, engine running.
Access IAC and RPM PIDS.
With engine at normal operating temperature, accessories OFF and at closed throttle, the IAC duty cycle must be between approximately 22 percent and 65 percent.
Slowly increase engine speed to 3000 rpm and return to closed throttle (Note: If closed throttle rpm is significantly higher than normal, ignore this step).
Is the IAC duty cycle within specification at closed throttle and does the duty cycle respond to the change in rpm?
Yes No
For Continuous Memory DTCs P1504 and P1507:

GO to KE30 .

All others:

KEY OFF. INSPECT throttle body for damage. REPAIR as necessary. If OK, REPLACE IAC valve. RESET Keep Alive Random Access Memory (RAM). (REFER to Section 2, Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Reset ). REPLACE IAC valve.

KE20 DTC P1506: CHECK FOR VACUUM LEAKS
Key on, engine running.
With the engine at idle, listen for vacuum leaks.
Inspect the entire intake air system from the mass air flow (MAF) sensor to the intake manifold for damage or leaks such as:
Cracked or punctured intake air tube.
Loose or cracked IAC air tubes.
Loose intake air tube at the air cleaner housing or throttle body.
IAC valve or gasket seal.
Intake manifold assembly or gasket seal.
EGR valve gasket seal.
Vacuum supply connectors and hose.
PCV valve, connectors and hose.
Are any leaks detected in the above areas?
Yes No
KEY OFF. REPAIR as necessary. KEY OFF. GO to KE21 .

KE21 CHECK EVAP SYSTEM FOR A STUCK OPEN VALVE
Disconnect hoses at EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
Connect a hand vacuum pump at the fuel vapor port to EVAP canister at the EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).
Apply 53 kPa (16 in-Hg) of vacuum to EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV).



Does the EVAP canister purge valve (or VMV) hold vacuum for 20 seconds?
Yes No
RECONNECT hoses. GO to KE22 . REPLACE EVAP canister purge valve.

KE22 CHECK IAC VALVE FOR PROPER FUNCTION
Key on, engine running.
Bring engine to normal operating temperature.
Transmission in PARK or NEUTRAL.
Disconnect IAC valve.
Does the rpm drop or engine stall?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to KE23 . KEY OFF. INSPECT throttle body for damage. REPAIR as necessary. If OK, REPLACE IAC valve. RESET Keep Alive Random Access Memory (RAM). (REFER to Section 2, Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Reset .)

KE23 CHECK IAC CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GND IN HARNESS
Note: Refer to the PCM connector pin numbers in the beginning of this Pinpoint Test.

Disconnect scan tool from DLC.
Disconnect PCM.
Measure resistance between IAC circuit at the PCM harness connector and battery negative post.
Is each resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes No
For fast idle symptom currently present:

REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM) ).

All others:

Reconnect PCM. GO to KE30 . REPAIR short circuit.

KE30 CHECK IAC SYSTEM FOR INTERMITTENT OPEN OR SHORT
Scan tool connected.
Key on, engine running.
Access IAC PID and RPM PIDs.
With engine at normal operating temperature, accessories off and at idle, the IAC duty cycle must be between 20% and 45%.
Observe the PIDs for an indication of a fault while completing the following at idle:
Lightly tap on IAC valve and wiggle harness connector to simulate road shock.
Grasp the vehicle harness closest to the IAC valve. Shake and bend a small section of the harness from the IAC to the dash panel and from the dash panel to the PCM.
Do the IAC or RPM PIDs suddenly change in value indicating a fault?
Yes No
ISOLATE fault and REPAIR as necessary. For idle quality, starting or stalling symptoms currently present:

REPLACE IAC valve.

All others:

Unable to duplicate or identify fault at this time. GO to Z1 .




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Procedure revision date: 08/19/2002

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A: No Start A: Introduction

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A1 CHECK PASSIVE ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM (SECURILOCK)
Note: This vehicle may have an anti-theft system, which may be activated, causing the no start condition. Verify by viewing anti-theft indicator light on instrument panel or a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC P1260) may be present.

Verify anti-theft system.
Is the system activated?
Yes No
REFER to Electrical Anti-Theft, Section 419 in the Workshop Manual for diagnosis and testing. GO to A2 .

A2 ATTEMPT TO CRANK ENGINE
Note: Verify inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch is set (button pushed in). Refer to Owner Guide for location.

Does engine crank?
Yes No
GO to A3 . REFER to the Starting Systems, Section 303 in the Workshop Manual.

A3 IDENTIFY TYPE OF NO START
Note: The purpose of this Test Step is to identify intermittent No Starts in order to guide the technician to the proper repair procedure.

Does the vehicle start now?
Yes No
Vehicle is an intermittent No Start. GO to Z2 . KEY OFF. GO to A4 .

2003 PCED OBD SECTION 2: Diagnostic Methods
Procedure revision date: 12/19/2002

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Intermittent Diagnostic Techniques
Intermittent diagnostic techniques help find and isolate the root cause of intermittent faults associated with the Electronic Engine Control System. The information is organized to help find the fault and perform the repair. The process of finding and isolating an intermittent starts with recreating a fault symptom, accumulating PCM data and comparing that data to typical values, then analyzing the results. Refer to the scan tool users manual for functions described below.

Before proceeding, be sure that:

Customary mechanical system tests and inspections do not reveal a concern. (Remember, mechanical component conditions can make a PCM system react abnormally.)
Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) and OASIS messages, if available, are reviewed.
Quick Test and associated Diagnostic Subroutines have been completed without finding a fault, and the symptom is still present.

Recreating the Fault
Recreating the fault is the first step in isolating the cause of the intermittent symptom. A thorough investigation should start with the customer information worksheet located in the Introduction. If Freeze Frame Data is available, it may help in recreating the conditions at the time of a Malfunction Indicator Lamp Diagnostic Trouble Code (MIL DTC). Listed below are some of the conditions for recreating the fault:



CONDITIONS TO RECREATE FAULT Engine Type Conditions Non-Engine Type Conditions
Engine Temperature Ambient Temperature
Engine rpm Moisture Conditions
Engine Load Road Conditions (smooth-bumpy)
Engine idle/accel/decel



Accumulating PCM Data
PCM data can be accumulated in a number of ways. This includes circuit measurements with a DVOM or scan tool PID data. Acquisition of PCM PID data using a scan tool is one of the easiest ways to gather information. Gather as much data as possible when the fault is occurring to prevent improper diagnosis. Data should be accumulated during different operating conditions and based on the customer description of the intermittent fault. Compare this data with the known good data values located in Section 6 in the Typical Diagnostic Reference Values . This will require recording data in four conditions for comparison: 1) KOEO, 2) HOT IDLE, 3) 48 km/h (30 mph), and 4) 89 km/h (55 mph).

Analyzing Data From Playback of Stored PIDs
Look for abnormal events or values that are clearly incorrect. Inspect the signals for abrupt or unexpected changes. For example, during a steady cruise most of the sensor values should be relatively stable. Sensors such as TP, MAF and RPM that change abruptly when the vehicle is traveling at a constant speed are clues to a possible fault area.

Look for agreement in related signals. For example, if TP is changed during acceleration, a corresponding change should occur in IAC, RPM and SPARK ADV PID.

Make sure the signals act in proper sequence. An increase in rpm after the TP is increased is expected. However, if rpm increases without a TP change, then a fault may exist.

Table Format (Figure 1): Scroll through the PID data while analyzing the information. Look for sudden drops or spikes in the values. (Refer to the following TP example). Notice the major jump in the TP voltage while scrolling through the information. This example would require a smooth and progressive accelerator pedal travel during a key on and engine off mode.

Graph Format (Figure 2): Scroll through the PID data while analyzing the information. Look for sudden drops or spikes in the linear lines showing the transformation of values to the line graph. This example would require smooth progressive accelerator pedal pressure with the key on and the engine off.





Figure 1: Table Format




Figure 2: Graph Format

Peripheral Inputs
Some signals may require certain peripherals or auxiliary tools for diagnosis. These tools include the Auxiliary Adapter and Pressure/Vacuum Adapter. In some cases, these devices can be inserted into the measurement jacks of the scan tool or multimeter. For example, connecting an electronic fuel pressure gauge to monitor and record the fuel pressure voltage reading and capturing the data would help find the fault.


Comparing PCM Data
After the PCM values have been acquired, it is necessary to determine the fault area. Typically, it will require the comparison of the actual values from the vehicle to the typical values from the Typical Diagnostic Reference Values in Section 6. The charts apply to different vehicle applications (i.e., model, engine, transmission, etc.).




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Best Option at this point?

You said that the engine runs if you continually feed it gas manually. It runs bad, but it runs. If this is the case, then that means that you do have spark, which means that your computer is receiving the proper signals from the crankshaft sensor which allows your engine to fire up. With out the spark, your engine wouldn't fire up, no matter how much gas you feed it manually. To me, your best option at this point is to check your compression at each cylinder. This will erase all doubts! If your compression checks out ok, then I would check on the fuel pressure. That's just me. Good luck, Tommy.

Check your engine oil for fuel!

You may want to check your engine oil to see if there is unspent fuel in it. If there is, I would not run the engine under that condition. You will end up with burnt bearings. If you can't pick up the proper compression, your unspent fuel may end up in your engine oil. The reason why I tell you this, is because this happened to me. Not with the Mustang, it happened with my Chevy engine. Just something to think about and be aware of! Good luck, Tommy.

jomull55 said:

i am aware of this, thanks. i didn't get a chance to work on the car today. but the symptoms i posted before are still current. id like to do a compression test ect. but if you have any more ideas let me know. the car will only start if i go wot

Click to expand...

The only other thing I can think of, is for you to try removing your catalytic converter to see if you still have to wot for the engine to start, or if the engine runs better by doing that. I remember working on a Toyota with the same symptoms. I tried removing the catalytic converter, and I could not believe it, the engine ran 100 % better. Again, if you decide to do this, check your engine oil first, for unspent fuel. If there is unspent fuel mixed with the engine oil, you will smell it right away. If that is the case, replace the oil and oil filter first, before you attempt to start the engine, in the event that the engine starts up and runs better, you will be glad that you did! Hope this helps. Good luck, Tommy.

It'll only start at WOT? This is interesting because of a specific strategy the PCM employs. It's called "clear flood" and in this mode, which is entered by having the throttle floored while cranking, the PCM doesn't actuate the fuel injectors. The idea is to zero the fuel input while maximizing air consumption to clear a flood condition.

I use this when I get my oil changed: before starting the car, I'll floor the pedal and crank it for 5-seconds or more to get some oil out of the pan and into the filter, then release the gas pedal and it fires right up. This helps, even a little, reduce the damage done by moving air through the oil system with the engine running.

If your engine only starts when you've got the pedal to the floor, that's just weird since the injectors should be shut off at that point.