302 vs 351w weight?

SetofAces · May 27, 2009

93 LX said:
Not it hi-jack but I was thinking of replacing the 5.0L in my 86 vert to a 5.8L. . . . I want something close to 350 hps and the added torque will be nice..

Wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just build a 350 hp 302? Doesn't seem like it's that hard to do . . .

blackened88lx · May 27, 2009

91ghp5.0 said:
What are power limits like at the crank for a stock 351 block?

Ah, you won't even come close to breaking it on motor. I've really only seen a couple break, and that was with a **** load of NAS. There's plenty of turbo ones making 700-800rwhp, and some have pushed them to 1000.

SMOKEDYA · May 27, 2009

mob said:
like notchbacklx said, getting a tubular k-member will make up for the weight gained, but comparing the power/weight, a 351 is worth it. Especially because of the amount of power it can handle. I'll gladly add 50 pounds to my car. But 50lbs is accurate as said before.

I looked into swapping over to a 351 and was going to do it, its not very expensive, but just out of my price range. Theres a lot of info on stangnet about 351's. Just remember you will have to upgrade all performance engine parts, because 302 performance parts on a 351 makes 302 power. You cant put afr 165's, gt40 intake, and an off the shelf cam and expect to make over 350hp.

hell no you caint

91ghp5.0 · May 27, 2009

So 500whp is pretty safe on a Sportsman block?

85_SS_302_Coupe · May 27, 2009

91ghp5.0 said:
So 500whp is pretty safe on a Sportsman block?

IMO it's pretty safe on a stock block as long as the internals are strong and the tune is safe. With a Sportsman block i think you're pretty much bullet proof unless you rev it too high.

SMOKEDYA · May 27, 2009

hands down a 351, after i did mine i love it! my power isnt what i wanted but my times are there. gonna throw a 200 shot on here soon and should be easy high 10's low 11's! the weight is no biggie dont sweat it i was also and to be honest i dont even notice the diffrence!if you need help doing the swap LMK i also have a thread on mine on here also. peace

john

91ghp5.0 · May 27, 2009

John I read pretty thoroughly aboutnyour swap, thanks fore taking the time to make that thread. This isn't something I'm going to start tomorrow, as I still daily drive the car at college...I just want to contact some builders and get quotes to get me started.

NIKwoaC · May 27, 2009

You must make a lot of money as a college kid. I could barely afford rent, much less a full on motor build.

1991notchbackLX · May 27, 2009

NikwoaC said:
You must make a lot of money as a college kid. I could barely afford rent, much less a full on motor build.

haven't you been following along Nik? his dad has a fleet of Shelbys

NIKwoaC · May 27, 2009

1991notchbackLX said:
haven't you been following along Nik? his dad has a fleet of Shelbys

Damn. I'm always jealous of the kids who got born into car/racing families. You guys got an earlier start and bigger advantage than I did.

91ghp5.0 · May 27, 2009

1991notchbackLX said:
haven't you been following along Nik? his dad has a fleet of Shelbys

I pay for the car stuff, not my parents. I work a part time job at school for just barely minimum wage. I have some help from the parents for food, rent, etc.....but the anything "fun" I pay for myself. Like I said, this is going to be a year or three in the making, I'm just trying to start now.

Edit: Please don't peg me as the rich bitch. I've had a job since the day I graduated from high school. I study as a civil engineering major on several scholarships, and I work for my toys (diving, cars, etc.). I may have a few nice toys, but I work on them, take care of them, and pay for them myself. The car has a nitrous kit on it now that I don't use, and I may use that to hold me over for now. This is all long term planning....I tried that "piece by piece" method on my last car and it didn't get me where I wanted, so I'm making a plan now and sticking to it.

1991notchbackLX · May 27, 2009

I was only poking fun at ya man, gotta keep it light on these forums! Your car is sick and if you worked for it then it's that much easer to appreciate and enjoy it... I get some help from my parents, I've been a full-time student pretty much my entire life, but like you I work for the toys, along with the other essentials. In any case, go with the 351 and you'd better post pics of the build up!!

blackened88lx · May 28, 2009

91ghp5.0 said:
So 500whp is pretty safe on a Sportsman block?

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
IMO it's pretty safe on a stock block as long as the internals are strong and the tune is safe. With a Sportsman block i think you're pretty much bullet proof unless you rev it too high.

Revving is what kills them usually. Nitrous seems to break them pretty quick, stock 302 blocks under 500rwhp. Blowers are better but you're actually putting more stress on it than it's putting out because it takes power to make the power. For some reason turbo ones just seem to live. They're doing retarded things now with stock block 302s. 600-700+rwhp isn't unheard of, and they don't seem to be breaking. With a turbo you can make a ridiculous amount of torque and you don't have to spin it over 6k to make the power.

If you want to make 500rwhp n/a, 302 based is out of the question regardless. A stock 351 block wouldn't break a sweat making 500rwhp if you kept the rpm down, but you're going to have to rev it to make that on motor. So I don't know how far I would trust it. Since you're probably going to rev it to 7k+ with a package serious enough to make 500rwhp on motor, I would probably go aftermarket block to be the safest. Now you're talking a $4k short block.

So bottom line, slap a turbo on a stock 302 short block with a junk set of iron heads and let it eat at 500rwhp. It won't break.

91ghp5.0 · May 28, 2009

For reference, the car already has the FMS E-cam, X-head crate motor with an original tubular GT40 on top of it.

It also has a Zex wet kit on it, which I do not use. I have wanted a turbo kit for years, but there is something impressive about all motor power.

Also, if I'm going to do a turbo kit, I'm going to do it rift, and that means a Hellion kit. That's 4k right there, plus injectors, a new MAF, and a tune at the very least, so probably over 5k right there, which is a good portion of a new longlock.

90lxcoupe · May 28, 2009

SMOKEDYA said:
hands down a 351, after i did mine i love it! my power isnt what i wanted but my times are there. gonna throw a 200 shot on here soon and should be easy high 10's low 11's! the weight is no biggie dont sweat it i was also and to be honest i dont even notice the diffrence!if you need help doing the swap LMK i also have a thread on mine on here also. peace
john

If youve got a 351 base motor and its built well, there is something wrong if you need a shot to get in the 10's...

My little 302 based motor should go high 10's on motor It's already been 11.30's and ive got 6 passes on the car.

Go with a 408, good internals, 11:1 CR, hydraulic cam, Victor EFI or Box R intake and 225cc CNC ported hi ports and you should have one hell of a street car, if i could do it over, thats what i would have built, and made way more power, and tq

85_SS_302_Coupe · May 28, 2009

I've always been told you have to do it one way or another....either high RPM with low peak power, or high peak power with low RPM. Also the stroke length has a LOT to do with how long an engine will last.

90lxcoupe · May 29, 2009

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
I've always been told you have to do it one way or another....either high RPM with low peak power, or high peak power with low RPM. Also the stroke length has a LOT to do with how long an engine will last.

Im gonna have to disagree with you there, the higher you rev a motor, the more potential to make more power, you sacrifice low end power and tq.

this is assuming the engin can handle it, and is built to make the power up high

85_SS_302_Coupe · May 29, 2009

I'm talking about keeping the engine together with a stock block....You can build a high RPM engine as long as it doesn't make ridiculous power at those high RPMs, or you can build higher power numbers at lower RPM (such as running nitrous but only reving to 5500). If you try to have both on a stock block that's when you're risking splitting the block.

302 vs 351w weight?

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