351 Guys check in here!

[squall9393]

Ok I still can't figure out what to do with my car. I almost have the tranny out, the engine just has the bottom end so I gotta pull the block next, and then the rear end is coming out. I need to see what you guys have done to your cars and get an idea of what I want mine to do. Right now this is what I have in mind. I want a nice motor that once I have the money I can add forced induction and nitrous to once I get the money to add those. Looking at the 393/407 range. No target HP in mind but it will not be daily driver. I still want to be able to have it safe to drive on the road though if I wanna cruise on a summer day with it. Looking at a T-56 tranny with 3.55s as well. What kind of bottom end should I be looking at? Billet steel crank, H-beam rods, and forged pistons will let me go how far if I can invest the money? Ok done talking now lemme hear about those combos under your hoods. Thanks.

JJ

 

[Joes95GT]

There is no need for a billet crank unless you're going all-out - 4340 will work well. Forged rods - H or I. It doesn't make a difference. I would take the I-beam. Forged pistons from whatever company will work. AFR 225's, Edelbrock Victor intake and a custom cam.

Get the block machined for a roller valvetrain and put a solid cam in it. You'll be able to make 600+ RWHP very easily (in N/A form) and the car will be plenty streetable.

Joe

 

[SlowGT]

I agree with Joe. Until you go for the boost & the juice. Then you'd better a have a Dart or World block. FYI: The new World block is capable of 470ci :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: . That's what I want for my next build ( 450ci+ with a small turbo ). I'm hoping that'll be my winter of 2006 project

Anyway, HERE's everything I've got for my 408. I still don't have everything together and in the car, but I've got all the pieces sitting around the car in boxes. I was hoping to one day go in the garage and find all the parts had jumped into the car where they belong...no luck so far

 

[baglock1]

( 450ci+ with a small turbo ).

Definately sounds like a cool project (my plan is an aluminum block knocked out to 427 with a big turbo), but what size of turbo are you planning.

With 450+ cid, you really can't run a "small" turbo as the displacement requires the higher flow. At that size, I'd guess you're looking at the 70mm+ range at least.

 

[SlowGT]

Definately sounds like a cool project (my plan is an aluminum block knocked out to 427 with a big turbo), but what size of turbo are you planning.

With 450+ cid, you really can't run a "small" turbo as the displacement requires the higher flow. At that size, I'd guess you're looking at the 70mm+ range at least.

I don't know what size turbo I'll need. I haven't even started any research yet. I just meant small in terms of boost...12-18psi on pump gas. I've got to get my 408 in and running before I put much effort into a turbo setup.


What kind of aluminum block are you looking at? Is 427 the max ci for it? A few less cubes with a lot less weight could be worth the extra $$$.

 

[baglock1]

I don't know what size turbo I'll need. I haven't even started any research yet.

Ahh, so you and I are basically in the same boat.

What kind of aluminum block are you looking at? Is 427 the max ci for it? A few less cubes with a lot less weight could be worth the extra $$$.

The Dart aluminum 351W block, 9.5" deck. With a 4" stroke and 4.125" bore, you're looking at 427 cid or 7.0L. Dart says the block is good for a 454 max cid (4.125" x 4.25").

 

[SlowGT]

hmmm....so it's possible to do 450ci in aluminum

your car came from the factory without ABS?? I'm going to removing all the ABS hardware from mine before I get this little project finished.

 

[Joes95GT]

Dan, maybe the aluminum blocks are different, but I've seen the iron block go to 4.185" bore.

Joe

 

[baglock1]

hmmm....so it's possible to do 450ci in aluminum

It might limit any possibilty for a rebuild in the future though. Personally though, the next rebuild will be the last thing on my mind once there's a dry-sumped turbocharged 427 aluminum engine boosted to nearly 30 psi under the hood. I'd considered maxing the cubes, but I'm stopping at 427 for nostalgic reasons.

your car came from the factory without ABS?? I'm going to removing all the ABS hardware from mine before I get this little project finished.

Yep, it was a special factory delete. As far as removing it, be sure to think long and hard about it before you do. It's saved many people who had to hit the brakes suddenly.

As far as the delete itself, physically, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Electronically however, I'm not sure what's involved or how pervasive it is into the PCM.

 

[baglock1]

Dan, maybe the aluminum blocks are different, but I've seen the iron block go to 4.185" bore.

Joe

You're right Joe. The Dart aluminum 351w block has a max recomended bore of 4.165". That gives a max cid of 463 (4.165" x 4.25"). Thanks for catching that.

 

[Joes95GT]

I was kind of asking more than stating.

I didn't know if they had a different recommended maximum bore for the aluminum blocks because of expansion reasons or some other weird thermal property of aluminum. Aluminum blocks scare me.

Joe

 

[baglock1]

Aluminum blocks scare me.

I spoke with Dart about the power capability and they claimed that they haven't found the limits yet. I even got it in writing.

Besides, even with the turbo setup and dry sump, I should break even in weight over the nose compared to where I'm at now (1758# front weight).

 

[Joes95GT]

It's not that. It's the issues with the clearances. It's hard to find someone who knows the proper clearances for aluminum blocks who really knows what they are doing. There are so many varied opinions about the recommended clearances for aluminum blocks that it starts to make you think "well who's right?" It becomes a craps shoot. I don't like that.

Picking things like piston rings becomes tough, too. Because you have (slight) expansion in the walls, the only ring I've seen people recommend for aluminum blocks are the HellFire rings.

From what I hear, you've also got to keep some sort of oil heater on the motor if you're running in the cold weather (you may not have to in FL). I've heard that it's recommended to keep the oil temperatures above 80-100* before starting the motor. It's too damn complex for me.

Joe

 

[squall9393]

I've thought about keeping away from aluminum blocks. To many people say if get any kind of internal damage it could ruin the whole engine cuz of course aluminum is softer and your twice as likely to throw something through the block. If I plan on turning up the pressure with forced induction with future plans of spraying I prolly don't want that. So what do you guys recommend personally? High compression N/A or low compression with forced induction. Cost isn't an issue. I'll spend the money if it gets me the results.

 

[squall9393]

TTT

 

[skpm316]

393 or 408 with either a supercharger or turbo. I am building a 408 ( DART 351 Iron Eagle block ) with a YSi Trim supercharger.