• Mustang Forums
  • 1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk-
  • Classic Mustang Specific Tech

351 Windsor knock I can't diagnose

  • Thread starter Thread starter stantonxr7
  • Start date Start date Jan 22, 2013
S

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
10
0
2
Jan 22, 2013
#1
  • Jan 22, 2013
  • #1
I have a motor knock that I can't diagnose and neither can a few friends and family. The knock is worse on start up and is less of a noise as the engine warms up. It seems like the strongest noise is on cylinder number 5. The motor is a 72 351 windsor that's stroked to 408. I pulled the motor before this because after my camshaft blew up at 5500 rpm because of having the wrong oil pump installed and had a knock then. The cam gear had a couple of broken teeth along with the distributor gear having teeth blown too. After replacing the distributor gear and limping the car home I could hear a slight unidentifiable knock. I pulled the motor and replaced the following; cam, lifters, oil pump, timing chain and pulled pan and wiggled all connecting rods thinking that whatever noise I heard; if it were a rod bearing or wrist pin; would be identifiable by wiggling the rods. However, all seemed tight so I moved on and after discovering the cam gear had a few missing teeth I thought that might have caused my noise.

Upon reassembling the motor with the new parts and after breaking in the cam I still heard a slight knocking noise that increases with rpm. The noise starts off pretty easily heard and after some running and warming up it becomes very hard to hear. Someone who isn't used to hearing motors would probably not be able to hear something wrong. I've put my ear all around the motor with screwdrivers and stethoscopes and cannot quite identify the noise. The strongest area where the noise is is on cylinder number 5 at the front of the motor. I think that I can hear the noise strongest while listening to the intake runner with a screwdriver at the base close to the head. It doesn't seem to be a rocker or pushrod as I have moved the front rockers and pushrods to the back along with the nuts.

I built a break in stand just for this reason thinking that there might still be a noise. I don't want to reinstall the motor into the car with this noise and am looking for your help. My possible ideas are bad lifter(s); even though they're new, or maybe wrist pin. I know I should have checked clearances in the bearings but thought that whatever noise I had heard would be easily identifiable.

408 windsor, trick flow 225 heads, edelbrock rpm air gap intake, MSD ignition setup, hooker super comp headers, speed demon 750 double pumper.
 

rbohm

Founding Member
Apr 12, 2002
6,698
550
204
tucson,az
Jan 22, 2013
#2
  • Jan 22, 2013
  • #2
if the noise sounds like a double tap, then you have a bad rod bearing. one thing is have found with 351Ws is a propensity to spin the number two main bearing.
 
S

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
10
0
2
Jan 22, 2013
#3
  • Jan 22, 2013
  • #3
What would be a possible diagnosis of a noise that starts strong and goes weak as the motor warms up? Also, would a spun main bearing make a knocking sound or would there be a different noise. Also the motor has only about 500 miles on it since the fresh bore and hone with the installation of the stroker kit.
 

Mr67Stang

Active Member
Feb 10, 2007
117
7
28
Fayetteville, NC
Jan 23, 2013
#4
  • Jan 23, 2013
  • #4
The 408w requires clearence work on the block I believe. Any rods look like they are contacting the block? This is of course unlikely but I'd be more suspicious of a wrist pin if your oil pressure is holding up. Additionally, with the discription of the previous engine failure, I would believe a complete tear down, cleaning and inspection would be in order. Replace bearings on reassembly.
 
S

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
10
0
2
Jan 23, 2013
#5
  • Jan 23, 2013
  • #5
The eagle I beam stroker kit that I purchased did not require notching on the 72 block. Had I gotten H beam rods then there would be notching done. I am a little weary of either a wrist pin or lifter being bad. But with the noise getting less noticable as the engine warms; does that make sense with a possible wrist pin diagnosis? The reason I didn't tear down the whole motor is when I dropped the pan; I found the remnants of the distributor gear and cam tooth. I cut apart the oil filter and found fine shavings and figured it did it's job of catching metallics and didn't need to tear down and clean the motor. I replaced the oil pump along with the previous stated. Oil pressure is still solid throughout the rpm range.
 

bartl

Active Member
Feb 4, 2001
218
8
29
West Rutland, Vermont
Jan 24, 2013
#6
  • Jan 24, 2013
  • #6
Fuel pump? Other than that the only other thing I can think of is a piston that was installed backwards
 

rbohm

Founding Member
Apr 12, 2002
6,698
550
204
tucson,az
Jan 24, 2013
#7
  • Jan 24, 2013
  • #7
there is also the possibility of a rod hitting the oil pan.
 

Iamdiffrnt

Member
Nov 13, 2005
197
6
19
South of Detroit, MI
Jan 25, 2013
#8
  • Jan 25, 2013
  • #8
rbohm said:
there is also the possibility of a rod hitting the oil pan.
Click to expand...
Had that problem with a cheap chrome oil pan with a bone stock 351w, threw it on a hydraulic press to get the extra 1/8th inch. Sounded terrible.
 
S

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
10
0
2
Jan 27, 2013
#9
  • Jan 27, 2013
  • #9
No, I don't believe it's oil pan. The motor never had this noise on initial build and nothing has changed.
 

rbohm

Founding Member
Apr 12, 2002
6,698
550
204
tucson,az
Jan 28, 2013
#10
  • Jan 28, 2013
  • #10
stantonxr7 said:
No, I don't believe it's oil pan. The motor never had this noise on initial build and nothing has changed.
Click to expand...

then start by dropping the oil pan and checking the main an rod bearings.
 
S

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
10
0
2
Feb 15, 2013
#11
  • Feb 15, 2013
  • #11
Hey all,

I ordered some parts from Summit including oil pan gasket, intake gasket, and two new lifters. BUT, I decided to review the noise one more time before tearing off the intake and replacing the lifters and really searched the block to locate the noise. The strongest spot that I've ever found isn't on the intake runner but rather on the block just below the head on the #5 cylinder. I'm planning on tearing off the pan and plastigaging the crank and rod bearings but I think it might be more likely a wrist pin.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Is there any reason to tear off the head or just hit the motor from the bottom end until I find something? What's the best way to check wrist pin clearances?
 
S

stantonxr7

New Member
Jan 22, 2013
10
0
2
Feb 15, 2013
#12
  • Feb 15, 2013
  • #12
Planning on heading back out to the garage so I'm eager to hear from you.
 

horseballz

10 Year Member
Sep 30, 2009
824
19
49
Las Vegas, NV
Feb 16, 2013
#13
  • Feb 16, 2013
  • #13
I second bartl's thought on fuel pump. It IS just below the head at #5 cylinder position AND I went through 3 crappy pumps before finding one that wasn't noisy. It also was loudest upon cold start-up and lessened as the engine warmed.
My $.02,
Gene
 

zookeeper

Founding Member
Aug 25, 2001
3,415
63
109
Rogue River, Oregon
Feb 16, 2013
#14
  • Feb 16, 2013
  • #14
I also have a horribly loud fuel pump. it really sounds like a rod knock at idle and goes away after a few minutes as well as at any rpm above 1500 or so. If it were a clearance issue, i think it would sound worse at higher rpms or as the motor warmed up and the oil thinned out a bit. but a rackety fuel pump (like mine) does just what you're describing.
 

horse sence

15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
12,235
8,089
233
Wile Coyote's stunt double
Feb 16, 2013
#15
  • Feb 16, 2013
  • #15
i believe bartle and horseallz are probably correct in the fuel pump theory.i had one do just that on a 289 . the arm on the pump had to much slap and caused the rattle.
place a hose on the fuel pump and put it to your ear,you should be able to hear it clearly
 
K

ks65stang

Member
Nov 4, 2002
184
0
17
Kansas City Metro, Lenexa
Feb 21, 2013
#16
  • Feb 21, 2013
  • #16
I have the same problem on my 289 after I had everything machined and I rebuilt it. Same thing... it knocks pretty loud at idle and after it warms up goes away. I have pulled individual plug wires while running hoping to narrow down the search and nothing.

Thought is was a exhaust leak, wasn't it.

Now I have pulled the pan oil pan and I was expecting to find a burt / loose rod bearing, but from a visual inspection and a lot of wiggling I see nothing wrong. I have ordered (will have on Saturday) a ford racing 1 piece rubber gasket incase I need to pull the pan again.

I am using an old fuel pump and I have suspected it from the beginning and I will replace it this weekend also. I will post if I find my knock, please do the same!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Knocking after pull- went away?
  • Connormcclark
  • Oct 6, 2025
  • 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-
Replies
4
Views
223
1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk- Oct 6, 2025
gkomo
H
Ongoing Battle With Hydraulic Lifters
  • hailer06
  • Jun 8, 2026
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
Replies
7
Views
252
1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- Jun 9, 2026
Noobz347
Y
Engine 1994 Ford Mustang Gt Rod Knock/Stuck Lifter
  • yaboity
  • Jun 7, 2025
  • 1994 - 1995 Specific Tech
Replies
2
Views
268
1994 - 1995 Specific Tech Jun 8, 2025
AeroCoupe
U
8 Years of Vibration leading to engine knock?
  • UpgradeXP
  • Apr 14, 2025
  • SN95 V6 Mustang Tech
Replies
3
Views
450
SN95 V6 Mustang Tech Apr 14, 2025
Noobz347
J
Help Figuring Motor Choice(Possible future turbo)?
  • jaygee15
  • Dec 14, 2025
  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
Replies
13
Views
619
1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk- Jan 3, 2026
Jarhead67
J
Share:
Bluesky Email Share Link
  • Mustang Forums
  • 1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk-
  • Classic Mustang Specific Tech
Menu
Log in

Register

  • Forums
  • What's new
  • Media
  • Resources
  • Contact
  • Sponsor
X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?

X

Privacy & Transparency

We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:

  • Personalized ads and content
  • Content measurement and audience insights

Do you accept cookies and these technologies?