351C 2v build up

[1973stang]

351C 2v build up HELP!

So heres the deal, I just joined this forum to get some advice on my first 351C build up. Ive rebuilt a small block chevy before but this is a different beast and only my 2nd build. This is for my 1973 mustang with a C6 with shift kit and B&M slap shifter and 9" rear with stock gears for now.

I am looking to make a driveable budget performance engine. Im 21 and a college kid. I plan on spending around $2000 and I am doing a 600 Cfm carb, performer intake and headers on this 351C 2V. I am looking for advice on what rebuild kit to use, cam and lifters, I will use arp rod bolts, and anything you can tell me that may help. I do have the peritronix ignition thing in place of the old points.

I bought this car for $1000 bucks when I was 12 from mowing lawns. Restored interior and did body and paint with my dad, hope to post pics soon.

 

[rebel65]

welcome and i hope to see some pics of your ( combined ) handywork.

i would check summit racing for a 351c kit otherwise Call around to local engine shops/builders and ask their advice. i'm sure they'll give you their $.02 for free. ; ).

i would say find some 351c 4v heads is all i can really advise on, lifters and cam hopefully someone else will chime in. ( have fun with that cleavland good engines those are )

 

[woodsnake]

Here is one to consider,

COMP Cams K32-221-3 - COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Plus a 3.25 gear will make a fun street car....

This will require a new torque converter, for sure an adjustable valve train, roller rockers, custom push rods,. etc...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K32-242-4/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K32-224-4/

 

[91dawg]

I did the same thing to a 73. But I would go with a 650 carb... will do better on the top end... and if you can find a good set of 4v heads, do it!!!! You'll be much happier

 

[ddonaca351]

Jesus guys, he's a broke student... 4v heads, big cams and adjustable valve train ?!?!



Your basically gonna be looking to do a "stock rebuild" but with a cam and manifold swap.

250-275hp, 325-350 lb ft... just a nice dependable driver, for a low cost.

Summit racing is a great place to buy good stuff for a good price.

You can reuse the factory crank / rods / heads / etc... have them freshened up by a local machine shop / engine rebuilder.

600cfm will be plenty for a 2v street motor on a budget. If you already have the carb, the intake and the headers, use what you have and save $$$ OR once you know what you need, you can troll flea-bay for good deals too... but be carefull.

Use a set of stock replacement rocker arms, etc...

A set of headers with 1&3/4" primaries should work fine.
(dont worry about equal length bs, any ol' header will work fine)

Get a mild hydraulic flat tappet cam. The cam kit should come with the right springs for it (but with a small cam, stock replacements will work in a pinch... just dont rev it past 5000)

The engine should be done for *about* 2K total ( remember it can be 600-1000 for block machine work / cyl head refresh / etc... )

Here, these might help:

Summit 03-0167 - Summit® Intake Manifold, Carburetor, and Air Cleaner Value Packs - Overview - SummitRacing.com

COMP Cams K32-219-3 - COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
or
COMP Cams K32-221-3 - COMP Cams High Energy Cam and Lifter Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Engine Rebuild Kits - SummitRacing.com

Take it easy, and don't go overboard.

more engines suck on the street, due to way too much carb or way too much cam, etc...

 

[1973stang]

Ddonaca I like your post will I be able to you hydraulic lifters and cam with the rest of my stock valvetrain? Which cam would you personally go for? What would be the next step in this low budget evolution if I wanted just a lil more out of it?

Thanks for all the help so far keep advice comin.

 

[1973stang]

oh and exclude machine work Ill have it all done free, I use to go to a tech school in highschool so all the equipment is available and Ive bored and honed many a block. would you try to go for stainless valves next?

 

[ddonaca351]

Well, (thoughtfull pause) it kinda depends...

Now here you have to do some HONEST soul searching.

What are you going to try and do LONG TERM?

If you want to do it the right way in a long term sense, then you throw the "budget" idea out the window... cuz what works for "budget" does NOT work for 500hp long term build up.

Know what I mean?

If you can spend the machine work money on a little better parts then (imho) I would go with;

- edelbrock performer rpm intake it can work with 2v heads now and still be useable up to about 500bhp with some mild porting later on...

- then I'd ditch the US 2v heads (i'm ass-u-me-ing they are US spec) and spend an extra $3-400 on ausie 2v heads; they will still work good at lower power levels, but they can be ported later on for BIG power (much better chamber design than US heads).

here's a source:
Aus Ford Parts - Aussie 351 Cleveland Specialists

- if you're willing to spend an extra $6-800 in the interest of long term use, then yes get a set of stainless valves with undercut intake stems and put a nice swirlpolish on the tulips before ya put em in.
(have a drill press? have a sanding roll on a hand held drill or high speed grinder? valve in press, turn slow, dust with sanding roll and viola: swirl polish )
* but for low power / low rpm budget build, you wouldn't need trick valves.
* this will also likely require added time in the heads (good 3 or 5 angle valve job) and guide plates, hardened pushrods and roller rockers. (all adding to the cost - hence the $6-800 price tag for this)

But again (imho) this would be a good step in long term keeper thinking... cuz a good set of Ausie 2v heads with good valvetrain can support 500 real easy, (there are guys down under making 700bhp with em) so basically you'd have the last set of heads youd ever need for it.

Some other free stuff you can do (since you have machine shop background) is polish out any and all sharp surfaces inside the combustion chambers.
- unused plug threads, valve reliefs in the pistons, chamber to squish transition edge, etc... nice smoothe corners, no sharp edges.

Spend a little time making sure to match the intake runner transition from the manifold to the heads (dont forget to acount for gasket thickness when doing the mock up)

Geat a Wilsons manifold 4 hole spacer (improves vac signal to the venturis and adds just a touch to plenum volume) good for 5-6-8hp/tq on virtually every single motor Ive ever seen one tested on.

Petronix makes good stuff (imho) so distributor should be fine, good cap and rotor, plugs, wires..

And for GOD sake... after you go through all this work to build a motor, put a decent F-ing exhaust system on it.
I see guys spend 10K on the motor and put a crush bent midas exhaust system behind it, that chokes the s*** out of it.

For like 3-400 you can get a 2.5" mandrel bent (generic) weld together system from Summit.

( I used to have some Cleveland build up articles at home, I'll look around and see if I can find any of em... give you an idea of what to expect )

Maybe go one notch bigger on cam than what I originally posted, for the ausie heads and edel intake. (add 10 degrees duration and maybe 20 thou of lift...)

Hope some of this helps... FREE advice always being worth the cost.

Dave

EDIT: there used to be a guy on here who was a HUGE cleveland nut... DHEARN *i think* ... or something like that... you might do a search on here for cleveland threads and read em, or maybe send him a pm. He would likely have some good advice.

 

[1973stang]

This may be dumb but I cant find any rebuild kits for 4V head engines just for the 2V. Are the actual head gaskets different or should I just get the 2V kit and buy 4v intake and exhaust gaskets?

 

[ddonaca351]

Why do you wnat a rebuild kit for a 4v motor?

Didn't you say you had a 2v and that's what you need to rebuild?


*if* i remember right the 2v and 4v are the same in the bottom end, only the h/c/i is different.

(except *i think* the boss 351 had 4 bolt bottom end, but those are super rare...)

EDIT: oh wait, are you confusing us using the term 2v with the idea of putting a four barrel carb on it?

Were using the 2v / 4v designation ONLY in terms of what came originally on the motor because they use totally different heads / intakes / etc...

Dont worry you can get plenty of good four barrel carbs / intakes / etc for a "2v" cleveland.

The "4v" cleveland was built basically as a NASCAR / Prostock engine with valves and ports the size of a big block chevrolet... (think: Boss 302, only with 351 inches)

The "2v" cleveland has plenty of aftermarket high performance parts available for it, four barrel intakes, etc... just with normal small block sized valves and ports.

Sorry for the confusion... forgot you're a converted Chevy guy.

 

[1973stang]

I was actually talking about the 4V I came across a 351C 4V "Q" code for $400. And think Ill rebuild it and use my 351C 2V for a backup and parts. I did end up finding a rebuild kit though. Is the Q code a CJ or just 4V

 

[EP429]

2V = Smaller intake & exhaust ports, better low end torque. Best suited to a cruiser/weekend hell-raiser.

4V = HUGE intake & exhaust ports, lacks low end grunt, great high-RPM power. Low end power can be helped with torque plates.
Best suited to low-gears, with intent on racing or at least keeping the throttle planted