351W project questions

C

COBRAIIW

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Apr 26, 2003

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Feb 27, 2007

#1

• Feb 27, 2007

• #1

My 302 roller started knocking very badly in october, so I parked it for the winter.
I have a 1978 351 windsor on a engine stand in my garage I want to put in there.
i want to use the 302 roller heads which have been worked, and have the 1.6 roller rockers, and larger valves than stock, with mild porting.
The 351 is not a roller engine, but I plan to modify it to be one.
I will have to drill and tap the block for the roller lifter retainer, and have the head bolt holes enlarged to 1/2 ".
I am leaving the bottom end stock, with the original pistons, 9 to 1 compression.
I will be using an older style Offenhauser intake with a 650 Holley.
I have a couple of questions for the engine guys.
Which cam would you recommend?
How long should the hydraulic pushrods be?
Do I need to use a steel distributer shaft gear ?
No, I can't afford expensive heads.

Any good input would help, thanks.

 

itsaMustangtoo

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Apr 2, 2005

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Carlisle,Pa

Feb 27, 2007

#2

• Feb 27, 2007

• #2

Call competition cams- give them your specs( weight-stall-rpm range-compression -etc) they will pick the right cam for you. Pushrod length will depend on deck height , valve stem length (shorter-longer) I would suggest getting a pushrod length checker. I have installed 351 heads on 302's and used .100 over motorsport pushrods , but never vice-versa As far as the distributor gear. Ask the cam manufacturer what they reccommend. Just a note- the machine shop called me - my mexican 302 block was .012" taller on the left bank . It was square, just taller. Have your deck heights checked.

 

T

THE COBRAMAN

pig 'rassler

Founding Member

Mar 11, 1999

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Feb 27, 2007

#3

• Feb 27, 2007

• #3

I would suggest going with an aftermarket roller setup, no machining required. Dist gear to match cam blank used.

 

Power Surge

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Jul 20, 2002

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Palm Coast, FL

Feb 27, 2007

#4

• Feb 27, 2007

• #4

You will need a special small base circle cam to run the roller lifters in the non-roller lifter block. If you can find a 95-96 351 block, that will be cast for roller already and will take OEM Ford roller parts.

You need to check the chamber size on the heads you have now, to the chamber size on the stock 78 heads, to make sure you will have the compression you want.

Is there a particular reason you want to do the roller cam? If you're not going to invest in the rest of the motor, especially heads, I don't see a reason for the expense of using a roller cam over a nice flat tappet piece.

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Apr 26, 2003

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Mar 4, 2007

#5

• Mar 4, 2007

• #5

Like was said before in the headers thread, MustangII owners are CHEAP!

I already have most of the parts that I can work with, the 351 block has a good bottom end and rings, the 302 block has a good set of heads.

I can build a decent roller 351W with just a few more parts, and if I decide to upgrade, it will be when I have a little more cash.

I am trying to get my ride back on the road for at least part of the summer.

Did I also mention I have a cracked windshield, and have to change over the interior too?

I also have an 8in. rear with an auburn unit and 4.10 gears in my garage.

Then next year it will be to finish the body, I am planning a Shelby look for the front.

 

itsaMustangtoo

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Apr 2, 2005

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Carlisle,Pa

Mar 5, 2007

#6

• Mar 5, 2007

• #6

Then next year it will be to finish the body, I am planning a Shelby look for the front.


How so??

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Apr 26, 2003

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Mar 25, 2007

#7

• Mar 25, 2007

• #7

pics i was going to add are too large.
how do other members load them?
i don't know how to shrink them down.

 

3-0-II

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Oct 24, 2006

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Redwood City, CA

Mar 26, 2007

#8

• Mar 26, 2007

• #8

go to imageshack.us

I'm pretty sure you can just upload it to there and link it

 

1

1badII

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Aug 5, 2003

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Durham, North Cacalaky

Mar 31, 2007

#9

• Mar 31, 2007

• #9

As said before, you don't need to drill and tap for the roller lifters, just get a set of link-bar lifters from Comp. Also, don't bother with the E7 heads. They may be decent for a stock 302, but they'll choke off your 351, even if they're worked. At a minimum, find some GT-40's. I see them going for $300-400 used all the time. You might want to save a little more and find some used aluminum heads.

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Apr 26, 2003

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Mar 31, 2007

#10

• Mar 31, 2007

• #10

1badII said:

As said before, you don't need to drill and tap for the roller lifters, just get a set of link-bar lifters from Comp. Also, don't bother with the E7 heads. They may be decent for a stock 302, but they'll choke off your 351, even if they're worked. At a minimum, find some GT-40's. I see them going for $300-400 used all the time. You might want to save a little more and find some used aluminum heads.

Click to expand...

Link bars are out of my price range, so are buying any more expensive parts right now.
I would like to upgrade later, but I have to use what I have for now.
The idea is to get it back on the road by mid summer.

It's gonna cost me enough just to get that done.

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Jun 16, 2007

#11

• Jun 16, 2007

• #11

Update

Engine is in the car and running!
Got to work out some bugs, you can hear a exhaust leak.

http://s200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/?action=view&current=DSCF0207.flv

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/DSCF0195.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/DSCF0188.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/DSCF0193.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/DSCF0187.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/DSCF0196.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/COBRAIIW/DSCF0178.jpg

I turned my 78 351W into a roller motor using 1986 302HO parts.
I have no idea what horsepower it is yet, but I'm guessing 280-300

I am under my budget of $1000.

 

welder4956

20+ Year Stangneter

Nov 28, 2003

230

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38

Birmingham, AL

Jun 17, 2007

#12

• Jun 17, 2007

• #12

COBRAIIW said:

I turned my 78 351W into a roller motor using 1986 302HO parts.

Click to expand...

Did you use the reduced base circle cam to keep the oil hole area from being uncovered while it is running? The earlier non-roller blocks had shorter lifter bores than the roller blocks. If you swap a late-model roller cam, lifters and hold-down without using either shorter lifters or smaller base circle cam, you will have oiling problems in the lifter bores. It may run for short while until the lifter bores start wearing out.

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Jun 18, 2007

#13

• Jun 18, 2007

• #13

Did my research, my machinist aleady had the one I needed, reduced cost too!
It is a Comp Cams retrofit with the small base cicle design.
THUMPR™ for Small Block Ford Windsor

APPLICATIONCAMSHAFTS
VALVE SETTING
RPM
OPERATING
RANGE
CAMSHAFT PART NUMBER 35-600-8
CAM GRIND NUMBER
DURATION
VALVE LIFT @ 1.5:1
LOBE SEP. ANGLE

ADV.
@ .050”

IN. EX. IN. EX. IN. EX. IN. EX.
HYDRAULIC ROLLER High performance street, stock converter ok, best with 2000+ converter and gears, choppy idle
Hyd
Hyd
1900-5600
35-600-8
283THR7
283
303
227
241
.531
.515
107°

*Notes:
1) Fits all Small Block Ford Windsor 1962-1995 that DID NOT come from the factory with a hydraulic roller camshaft
2) 5.0/351W firing order: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
3) Requires 31-1000 retrofit kit and OE style hydraulic roller lifters

 

Steel Steeds

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Aug 31, 2005

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Portland, OR

Jun 22, 2007

#14

• Jun 22, 2007

• #14

What headers are you using, and what mods did you do to make them fit?

I finished the bottom end of my 351W last weekend. Tomorrow I prep the heads for install...

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Apr 26, 2003

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Jun 22, 2007

#15

• Jun 22, 2007

• #15

I used a set of the old Blackjack headers that came with the car.
Unfortunatly they are not available anymore, except maybe on ebay.
Yes, there was metal sacrificied, and the number 6 tube was hitting the vacuum boost for my brakes, and had to be flattened at the bend.

Good luck to you.

BTW- stupid starter quit on me this morning, AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

Steel Steeds

New Member

Aug 31, 2005

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Portland, OR

Jun 23, 2007

#16

• Jun 23, 2007

• #16

Did you have to notch the firewall, or just the fender well?
Thanks.

 

A

a351Must2

Windsor II

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Mar 12, 1999

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Jun 23, 2007

#17

• Jun 23, 2007

• #17

btw, for starters ... my old Ford started lasted a long time on the 351W, but eventually failed. The replacement Schuck's/Kragen/Checker lifetime warranty start was a weekly replacement that left me stranded a few times in the 3 weeks I put up with it.

The fix was a 18 position Summit starter that only fit in one of the 18 positions, but has put up with the heat from the headers for a few years now and cranks a lot stronger than the old style starters ever did.

 

C

COBRAIIW

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Apr 26, 2003

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Jun 24, 2007

#18

• Jun 24, 2007

• #18

I've had a lot of crappy luck with starters myself thru the years.
I have gotten to the point where I can change one out in less than an hour.

The headers- yes, the inner fenderwells, and also a portion of the transmission tunnel near/under the gas pedal. The collector flange preloads there.

Like I stated earlier, they are old style Blackjacks.