351W vs. 351C

coupe67 · Aug 8, 2007

What are the differences between the 351w and the 351c? Also which would be better for my 68 coupe?

rbohm · Aug 8, 2007

the 351w has a better oiling system, longer rods, taller block.
the 351c has better heads, revs better, and has smaller main bearings. which is better? what are you planning on doing. for the street a 351w is tough to beat with the heads that are available today. for the race track though, the 351c really shines. even though it has a cast crank, racers have turned 351c's up around 9500 rpm and rarely breaks a crank. if you want displacement, the windsor is better. both can be made to do what you want though with the parts that are available.

in this case, i like both engines, so you pays your money and you takes your choice.

and either one will fit nicely in your 68.

coupe67 · Aug 8, 2007

Is there any weight difference?

ratio411 · Aug 8, 2007

351c is typically heavier.
Especially considering the 351w pretty much needs aluminum heads to run anywhere close to a 351c's potential with it's iron heads.

It's not a huge amount tho...

coupe67 · Aug 8, 2007

so would it not be as good for my car?

ratio411 · Aug 8, 2007

Btw... I saw a 68 coupe with a 70 model 300 horse Cleveland get banned from a track because he ran too fast his first time out.
He had NO SAFETY whatsoever. The rule at the time that was okay over 13 seconds.
He ran something insane, high 10s or low 11s (was 20 years ago).
Whatever it was, they said couldn't come back without a long list of mods to his car, including a full cage.
The engine was almost totally stock!
Fresh build, small solid cam (think it was a Boss 351 cam), F351 intake, Holley carb, and headers. The tranny was a WR Toploader and gears were 3.89.

ratio411 · Aug 8, 2007

coupe67 said:
so would it not be as good for my car?

Like Rbohm said... depends on what you want from your car.

Personally, I like the heck out of the Cleveland, but a 393w is dirt cheap cubes in a small package. Like that too.

Either engine will bolt in place of a 289/302, either will fit a 68 just fine.
The Cleveland costs more, until you figure on aluminum heads to get the Windsor breathing... then it's a draw.
The C is a little heavier, but the "neato" factor is awesome when you pop the hood in a crowd.

rbohm · Aug 8, 2007

there are some good aftermarket cast iron heads available for the windsor, so you dont need aluminum heads. the 351c is going to ba about 40lbs heavier due to the extension of the block for the timing chain cover. it is cast as pat of the block. the timing cover is a flat piece of sheet metal.

StangDreamin' · Aug 9, 2007

"Back in the day" (1980) the Cleveland was a better deal for an 18-yr-old that was pretty sure he was "bulletproof", because there just wasn't a heck of a lot of anything out there for Windsors; and even the "grocery getter" 4-door Gran Torinos could be stoplight asassins if they had a warmed-up Cleveland. (Don't ask me how I know ) Nowadays, the Widsor is a much better choice (financially) if you want to build some power and you don't have a block to start building.

Of course nowadays, the Cleveland is still the better choice for me; because, once again, it's what I already have.

ratio411 · Aug 9, 2007

rbohm said:
there are some good aftermarket cast iron heads available for the windsor, so you dont need aluminum heads.

Playing devils advocate:

Wouldn't you agree that with the substantial weight loss and the ability to run higher compression with aluminum, that the slight additional cost is money well spent?
I mean aftermarket iron is not massively cheaper than aftermarket aluminum.
For the benefits, I wouldn't ever look at aftermarket iron myself.
I would look at early 351w heads if I was to use iron at all.
They flow on par with many aftermarket mid-range heads when ported... and flow better than entry level aluminum heads (when max ported).

Remember that aluminum heads= 1 point of compression added with same gas, or more timing. Whichever flavor you prefer.
AND
100#s of weight= .10 second in the quarter OR 10 rwhp.
I know you don't save 100# with aluminum heads, but with 10# still = to 1 rwhp, and 1 point of compression= 10 rwhp, you are still way ahead of the game with aluminum vs similar money spent on aftermarket iron.

ratio411 · Aug 9, 2007

StangDreamin' said:
Nowadays, the Widsor is a much better choice (financially) if you want to build some power and you don't have a block to start building.

Devils advocate again...
I am pretty much with you, but there is additional cost to building a W that most folks forget about.

The C is more expensive than the W until you get to the heads.
With 4v C heads, you don't have to go far to run fast. Yeah, they aren't the most high tech heads, and the exhaust ports were compromised, but they still kick arse.

You will spend much more on getting aftermarket W heads together than will match the abilities of the C heads in stock form. This is the great equalizer in the 'which is cheaper' arguement.

Things get better all the time for the W though!
Now you can build a 393 cubic inch W for the same price as doing a stock rebuild.
I think this is awesome myself.
This also goes a long way in adding to the W side of things in the C vs W arguement!
But if you think about it:
You will need good heads MORE THAN EVER with the additional cubic inches!
However, the cost of the inches being little of nothing, and the cost of the heads equalizing the Windsor's edge over the Cleveland... score leans to Windsor.

I can't make up my mind. I love them both!

rbohm · Aug 9, 2007

ratio, i would agree with you when building a race motor, but for the street the iron heads are going to be better imo. they retain heat better, than aluminum heads will and that will be better for efficiency.

ratio411 · Aug 9, 2007

rbohm said:
ratio, i would agree with you when building a race motor...

Is there any other kind?

Seriously though, I can't see even on the street, the need for rejecting aluminum heads. Why would you want to retain heat on the street?
I know that in a perfect world iron should be better than aluminum, but it doesn't work that way. The internal combustion engine is such that it inherently cannot use extra heat the way theory would suggest is beneficial.

I don't know that we have argued this on this site, but it has been argued to dozens of pages in threads elsewhere on the net.
If the technology of internal combustion engines was such that they could run ridiculously hot, then heat would be good. But it just isn't that way.
They have been toying with ceramic blocks and heads for years, to no avail, so that the heat effeciency can be used... until then, the heat must come out, even on the street.

coupe67 · Aug 10, 2007

What kind of time would i run on each if they were stock?

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