4.10 not worth it!!!

jimfitzgerald · Feb 25, 2006

Here is one more issue to think about. A computer simulation model is a series of mathematical formulas. These formulas are only as good as the model developer's assumptions regarding relationships of cause and effect dependent and independent variables. Just as an example, if every formula was 90 percent accurate, and you only have 10 formulas, the model is only 35 percent accurate.

Stang2003GT · Feb 25, 2006

So what should I simulate. Dragstrip conditions? Drag radails?

Also the math is 100% deadon were the simulation is unaccurate is in real life situtions vs the simulated environment.

To learn more go here http://www.performancetrends.com/drag_racing_analyzer.htm

Even if there were off by .1 the difference between the two gears is small.

jimfitzgerald · Feb 25, 2006

Stang2003GT said:
So what should I simulate. Dragstrip conditions? Drag radails?

Also the math is 100% deadon were the simulation is unaccurate is in real life situtions vs the simulated environment.

To learn more go here http://www.performancetrends.com/drag_racing_analyzer.htm

Even if there were off by .1 the difference between the two gears is small.

No, the math is not 100 percent accurate. The arithmetic is 100 percent accurate, but the forumlas are somebodies attempt to state on-track performance in mathematical terms. These formulas are merely estimates.

Edit: No computer simulation model is 100 percent accurate.

Mike97gt · Feb 25, 2006

Stang2003GT said:
So what should I simulate. Dragstrip conditions? Drag radails?

Also the math is 100% deadon were the simulation is unaccurate is in real life situtions vs the simulated environment.

To learn more go here http://www.performancetrends.com/drag_racing_analyzer.htm

Even if there were off by .1 the difference between the two gears is small.

as jim pointed out the assumptions taken by the devloper will affect the outcome. plus i think if you decreased the amount of wheel spin factored in to make it more like a real 4.10 and 3.27 car then you would see the 4.10's shine.

no traction untill the top of second is unrealistic.

timeless2 · Feb 25, 2006

All you have to do to disprove this idiosyncratic simulation is to run two identical (hell, even similar) cars down the strip.

Anyone who believes that a 4.10:1 ratio is not going to pull harder & faster in a shorter time is smoking some serious grass.

Barrier · Feb 25, 2006

svttech76 said:
as jim pointed out the assumptions taken by the devloper will affect the outcome. plus i think if you decreased the amount of wheel spin factored in to make it more like a real 4.10 and 3.27 car then you would see the 4.10's shine.

no traction untill the top of second is unrealistic.

Quoted for assumed truth. :Teh-Win:

Stang2003GT · Feb 25, 2006

Once again all im talkin about is street performance. NO dragstrip and no DR's

With those the 4.10 will be alot faster. I would post pics but I hit my 2 pic limit.

jimfitzgerald · Feb 25, 2006

I guess if you were racing on a frozen lake with stock tires, it's possible the 3.27's would win. It could be that the 4.10's would never get any traction.

blackfang · Feb 25, 2006

Stang2003GT said:
So what should I simulate. Dragstrip conditions? Drag radails?

Also the math is 100% deadon were the simulation is unaccurate is in real life situtions vs the simulated environment.

To learn more go here http://www.performancetrends.com/drag_racing_analyzer.htm

Even if there were off by .1 the difference between the two gears is small.

Honestly, dont simulate anything. Go out and pay 15-20 bucks and run the car on the weekends and get some real results. Compare them to the other guys that are actually at the track. Then decide for yourself if you should get gears. Every Mod Mustang I have owned has had 4.10's or steeper from my GT to my Cobra's.

Stang2003GT · Feb 25, 2006

blackfang said:
Honestly, dont simulate anything. Go out and pay 15-20 bucks and run the car on the weekends and get some real results. Compare them to the other guys that are actually at the track. Then decide for yourself if you should get gears. Every Mod Mustang I have owned has had 4.10's or steeper from my GT to my Cobra's.

Not going to happend. Like im going to find a stock GT with 4.10 who would let me drive so I can do an acutal test.

jimfitzgerald · Feb 25, 2006

Stang2003GT said:
Not going to happend. Like im going to find a stock GT with 4.10 who would let me drive so I can do an acutal test.

No, what he is saying is that you will get tired of getting your ass handed to you by every car with 4.10's.

Stang2003GT · Feb 25, 2006

Here is a run with 10.5 inch Drag radial at the Dragstrip.

3.27 with DRs

4.10 with DRs

blackfang · Feb 25, 2006

jimfitzgerald said:
No, what he is saying is that you will get tired of getting your ass handed to you by every car with 4.10's.

Thanks jim

Barrier · Feb 25, 2006

It's still vastly overestimating the amount of throttle you can lay down... no traction all throughout 1st with DRs? Highly unlikely unless you just suck at driving.

Mike97gt · Feb 25, 2006

the "street" sim you did had WAY to much wheel spin. plus i need to see the manual for this sim. you have drivetrain loss set at 3 percent??? it should be more like 15 percent.

but then you ran a stock car on drag radials and a 4.10 car on drag radials and it is still to slow?

60 foot times are awfull for a drag radial car. 2.11 with the 3.27's and 1.98 with 4.10's

it is still set up all wrong

jimfitzgerald said:
I guess if you were racing on a frozen lake with stock tires, it's possible the 3.27's would win. It could be that the 4.10's would never get any traction.

or driving on salty streets in new england in feb. 3.27's have the advantage then to.

hotmustang331 · Feb 25, 2006

Well my 02 is that 4.10s do help and WILL pull on the 3.27 car, simply becuase its in a better power range throughout the run.

But people have a serious miss understanging on how much it takes to gain a tenth in the 1/4 outside of the launch. the 4.10s CAN be much faster in the 1/4, but its mainly due to getting the launch down.
I know I can pull MUCH better 60's with my 3.73s on DRs vs 3.27s on the same DRs.

As far as actual pull one the car is moving...its going to be a VERY VERY slow walk. No 4-5 lengths...and no 4-5 tenths with the same 60' and weather.

The reason drag racers run steeper gears is bacause the run slicks...they can pull much better 60's with the steeper gears + the advatage of being higher in the RPMs after each shift.

In short, 4.10s are faster...just not "My GT has mad tyte 4.10s and ill walk you 4-5 car lengths" lol.

I have raced a simularly modded GT but with 3.27s. We stayed even the entire time, my gears didnt give me much of an advantage..even when i was shifting. (except of the 3-4 where I gained about 2 feet..but then it stopped) So even though I slammed 4th and was at a lower RPM than him (him in 3rd) he didnt pull on me...nore when he hit 4th and I was at a higher RPM in my 4th. We stayed even. Like I said its not a HUGE advantage. (BTW this was a LONG time ago..boltons)

Stang2003GT · Feb 25, 2006

hotmustang331 said:
Well my 02 is that 4.10s do help and WILL pull on the 3.27 car, simply becuase its in a better power range throughout the run.

But people have a serious miss understanging on how much it takes to gain a tenth in the 1/4 outside of the launch. the 4.10s CAN be much faster in the 1/4, but its mainly due to getting the launch down.
I know I can pull MUCH better 60's with my 3.73s on DRs vs 3.27s on the same DRs.

As far as actual pull one the car is moving...its going to be a VERY VERY slow walk. No 4-5 lengths...and no 4-5 tenths with the same 60' and weather.

The reason drag racers run steeper gears is bacause the run slicks...they can pull much better 60's with the steeper gears + the advatage of being higher in the RPMs after each shift.

In short, 4.10s are faster...just not "My GT has mad tyte 4.10s and ill walk you 4-5 car lengths" lol.

I have raced a simularly modded GT but with 3.27s. We stayed even the entire time, my gears didnt give me much of an advantage..even when i was shifting. (except of the 3-4 where I gained about 2 feet..but then it stopped) So even though I slammed 4th and was at a lower RPM than him (him in 3rd) he didnt pull on me...nore when he hit 4th and I was at a higher RPM in my 4th. We stayed even. Like I said its not a HUGE advantage. (BTW this was a LONG time ago..boltons)

I agree, the sim may not show times that the car would actual run but the time difference between the gears is real. I never said 4.10s werent slower just not worth $600-$750 on a stock car that will never hit the track.

Look at my data- 4.10 on street tires doesnt do much but add DR's and a great driver and u will get your .2-.4 tents off your quarter.

If 4.10 would take a stock car from a 14 to 13.6 on street tires then Ill shut up and retract all my data.

Pro:
Alot in the seat of the pants departmant
Less strain on the motor
With Drag radials ETs improve

Con:
$600-700
Doesnt seem to be worth it for street useage
RPM is way to high

So everyone seem to want to prove me wrong. Were are the time slips at???
How about some 3.27 vs 4.10 time slips?

ilbehaved · Feb 25, 2006

i have never seen 4 10's proven on street tires NOT DRAG RADIALS over 3 73 or any other gear.

everyone knows 4 10's are faster on drag radials or slicks. but what about on the street on stock good years? i have 3 27's and when i hit second i lose the tires in 2nd gear for a bit. on stock tires. so i imagine when u hit 2nd on 4 10's u really lose 2nd for a bit more right?

Barrier · Feb 25, 2006

Stang2003GT said:
So everyone seem to want to prove me wrong. Were are the time slips at???
How about some 3.27 vs 4.10 time slips?

Umm... it's a bit hard to change out a differential (believe me we tried to crush the crush sleeve with a beast of an impact gun that looked like an M60 [complete with overhead handlebar] and sounded like a V8... I looked like I was getting shot with a machine gun when I was trying to hold the pinion assembly with a prybar.) AND drive about 1k miles to wear her in in the few hours you have allotted us.

EDIT: Here's a picture of it next to a regular impact gun.

Justin03GT · Feb 25, 2006

yea, if you arent getting traction with drag radials then the sim is clearly flawed. i launch at 3500 on drag radials spraying n20 with 476rwtq and the car doesnt lose traction like the one you have in the sim.

4.10 not worth it!!!

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