4.10s in and making noise!

rockyracoon · Dec 23, 2009

if you take an old bearing and use a die grinder on the inside just slightly,you can then use that for the setup,and then what I did was place the permanent bearing in a zip lock bag,and put it in a pot of boiling water for a few minutes it will then slide right on.

peepeeskillz · Dec 23, 2009

rockyracoon said:
if you take an old bearing and use a die grinder on the inside just slightly,you can then use that for the setup,and then what I did was place the permanent bearing in a zip lock bag,and put it in a pot of boiling water for a few minutes it will then slide right on.

thats what i did to get the bearing on lol, but i didnt use a bag you think i messed the bearing up? i sprayed it with wd40 alot after

Tanus said:
first gear swap I did i had to swap the pinion shim like 8 times before I got it right, Im an expert at pressing bearings on/off now, haha.

haha i suck at doing that, one reason i got new pinion bearings is because i messed the old one up so bad taking it off of the original pinion lol

so you guys both used a pinion depth measuring tool? i was thinking the MHD method would be easier so i hope the pinion depth isnt off

Tanus · Dec 23, 2009

I've never used the depth measuring tool, always put a mid-size shim in, then use the paint to see the gear pattern, now, after doing so many swaps I can tell what shim it will need by the pattern, hit it the 2nd time usually, never more than 3 tries.

with the correct block (cant think of the proper name) its easy to press the bearing on/off, I use a crappy harbor freight press too (w/ modified upper support)

peepeeskillz · Dec 27, 2009

rechecked my backlash today and found it was .030 and did the dye test. too much backlash only?!? hopefully lol. i also have about 50 miles on the gears now, whines alot less and only at about 40-50mph

rockyracoon · Dec 27, 2009

.030 whew, thats a really lotof B/L no wonder it whines.I bet there is a lot of clunking as well. btw did you preload the carrier bearings?

peepeeskillz · Dec 27, 2009

yea it clunks when i shift, and no i didnt preload the bearings, weird i was just reading about gear swaps more a couple minutes ago and just now heard of preloading carrier bearings lol. all i did was measure the stock shim thickness and got my new shims that thick added together. so im going to try and get the backlash in spec.
can any tell from the pattern if the pinion depth is correct? i was looking at some charts and it seems like it may be that my pinion is too close!?!? any one know?
thx for the help!!

rockyracoon · Dec 27, 2009

maybe not.
in looking at the pics there is too much heel contact,so you need to decrease the B/L to move the pattern inwards towards the toe.it actually doesnt look all that bad in terms of being centered between the top and the root,lets see what happens once you get that B/L straightened out. your pinion depth may actually be acceptable
.try and put some drag on the rotating assembly when you check your pattern, that will help to give a clearer pattern.
since you didnt preload the carrier brgs that may have allowed your B/L to open up like it did.once you get the B/L where you want it add a 0.06 shim to both sides to obtain the correct preload,you could prolly get away with 0.05.obviously youll have to put those thin shims on the inside of your shim packs,or are you using the factory shims ? as opposed to multiple shims.

Tanus · Dec 27, 2009

peepeeskillz said:
can any tell from the pattern if the pinion depth is correct? i was looking at some charts and it seems like it may be that my pinion is too close!?!? any one know?
thx for the help!!

gonna need a bigger pinion shim for sure

peepeeskillz · Dec 27, 2009

im using multiple shims, i tried using factory shims but there was so little backlash i couldnt even rotate it lol. but i dont know how easy it would be to add a shim to each side since it was pretty hard to get the shims i have in there in, they are the same thickness as stock(0.555) so shouldn't it have the correct preload? idk ill see if i can add a shim to each side, since i read its almost impossible to have to much carrier bearing preload lol.

peepeeskillz · Dec 27, 2009

Tanus said:
gonna need a bigger pinion shim for sure

i hope not!! lol. i thought if the flat part was on the bottom it meant the pinion was too close? idk im looking at some patterns and seems like the combination of drive/coast pattern according to this chart im looking at says i have correct pinion depth just need to adjust backlash, i hoping thats true lol.
ill prolly have the backlash corrected by tomorrow prolly, and post pics of the new pattern, hopefully i wont have to fool with the pinion depth! lol

rockyracoon · Dec 28, 2009

I would set your B/L and then see what ya got with the marking compound.if you are good to go,then try and add the preload,as long as you add equal amounts to each side the B/L shouldnt change.

BTW gear oil is sickening isnt it? LOL

Tanus · Dec 28, 2009

yeah, smaller pinion shim I meant, doubt you'll get it properly set-up without swapping that out.

rockyracoon said:
BTW gear oil is sickening isnt it? LOL

I hate old gear oil, leaves you stinking for days

peepeeskillz · Dec 28, 2009

fixed my backlash, its .010 now but the new dye pattern looks identical to the other

Tanus · Dec 28, 2009

pull that pinon, no getting around it.

peepeeskillz · Dec 28, 2009

k ill prolly do that. shouldnt getting the backlash right move it toward the toe more though?
so i guess ill try a smaller pinion shim and see if that gets me a better pattern

peepeeskillz · Dec 30, 2009

i think i figured out why i had too much pinion depth LOL. is the pinion flange supposed to be able to move at all with the pinion nut tight? im pretty sure its not. i think my pinion nut back it self out. with the carrier and everything else in i can take my hand and move the drive shaft and the flange will go in and out. i think this is causing my pinion depth problem. i was pretty sure i matched my pinion head thickness to the stock one correctly.

Tanus · Dec 30, 2009

oh thats cause your crush sleeve isnt crushed yet

if you have the stock nut it definatly didnt loosen itself.

oh and setting the shim thickness same as the previous gears doesnt mean its the right shim, good starting point, but thats it.

peepeeskillz · Dec 30, 2009

Tanus said:
oh thats cause your crush sleeve isnt crushed yet

if you have the stock nut it definatly didnt loosen itself.

oh and setting the shim thickness same as the previous gears doesnt mean its the right shim, good starting point, but thats it.

ohhhh so my sleeve didnt crush yet? lol i was tightining it with a breaker bar then i checked the rotational drag with and inch/lb click style wrench and it clicked at 20, so i moved it to 26 and it didnt click while turning the pinion so i thought it should be in spec. but today while taking the driveshaft off i noticed how loose the flange was and i checked the rotational drag with carrier and axles in and it doesnt even take 20in/lbs to turn.

i used the nut that came with the gear not the one that was there originally

so should i just take the carrier out and tighten it to spec and check with dye test again, or should i change the crush sleeve?

wmburns · Dec 30, 2009

My 0.02 worth. A crush sleeve even directly from Ford is not an $$ item. Don't take a chance by reusing.

If the pinion bearings are correctly pre-loaded, the absolutely should be no in/out play on the flange. Any in/out flange play indicates pre-load is gone.

How did you perform the initial flange install onto the pinion? Did you use the special tool or just use the nut? If you used the nut, consider using an OLD nut to press the flange onto the pinion. Use the NEW nut for the final pre-load measurement.

Have you considered the possibility that the bearing races were not FULLY seated in the diff housing? This could explain how it is possible to have the correct pre-load on initial crush but then no pre-load later.

Also remember to put some RTV silcone between the pinion nut, pinion shaft, and flange. This will prevent oil migration between the splines and the pinion flange (per Ford TSB).

peepeeskillz · Dec 31, 2009

wmburns said:
My 0.02 worth. A crush sleeve even directly from Ford is not an $$ item. Don't take a chance on reusing.

If the pinion bearings are correctly pre-loaded, the absolutely should be no in/out play on the flange. Any in/out flange play indicates pre-load is gone.

How did you perform the initial flange install onto the pinion? Did you use the special tool or just use the nut? If you used the nut, consider using an OLD nut to press the flange onto the pinion. Use the NEW nut for the final pre-load measurement.

Have you considered the possibility that the bearing races were not FULLY seated in the housing? This could explain how it is possible to have the correct pre-load on initial crush but then no pre-load later.

Also remember to put some RTV silcone between the pinion nut, pinion shaft, and pinion bearing. This will prevent oil migration between the splines and the pinion nut (Ford TSB).

kk i have another crush sleeve but it looks different than the one that came with the gear so im kinda afraid to use it, it came with a mini install kit i have.

i used the nut to press the flange on

and im pretty sure the races are fully seated, but i may have to check.

but when i originally set the preload the flange was not all the way to the seal(barely any room in between, but still some room) which kind of worried me, and now it can even more farther from the seal, but when i originally set the preload there was no play, and it wasnt that difficult to tighten it to get the preload which i thought according to what i read i thought the pinion nut was supposed to be between 100-300 ft/lb, but it im pretty sure it didnt take that much force to tighten it.

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