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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-

4.6 swap in 85 hatch

  • Thread starter Thread starter demon50
  • Start date Start date Oct 15, 2011
D

demon50

New Member
Oct 15, 2011
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Oct 15, 2011
#1
  • Oct 15, 2011
  • #1
Hey i have an 85 5.0 gt hatch, five speed, and i want to swap in a 4.6 gt engine from a 03 mustang. whats the easiest way to do this?? Ibhave to swap everything over, seeing it is obd2 and fuel injected, is this swap even worth the trouble? If anybody has done this please let me know, If you havent but you have knowledge on swaps i would appreciate any help...
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Oct 15, 2011
#2
  • Oct 15, 2011
  • #2
I'll tell you demon, This thread pops up like about every 2-3 weeks. You can answer your own questions by looking back through this forum and you'll get your answer.

As for your "is it even worth it question" it all depends on why you're doing it.

1. Different??Yes. 99% of foxes still have a windsor OHV in them.
2. Easy/Difficult? Better know what you're doing. If you gotta pay somebody to do it, NO FRIGGIN WAY!
3. Practical? Not if you're looking for bang for the buck power.

It's your car. I have a 2v in mine. I wasn't looking for anything except #1 in my case. ( well other than the fact that I had it already)
 

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,125
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214
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Oct 15, 2011
#3
  • Oct 15, 2011
  • #3
Nevermind, I was just giving an opinion. I dont know how to put the 4.6 in.
 

tunedin302

I AM the law!!!
Jul 29, 2004
1,251
2
36
Pennsylvania
Oct 20, 2011
#4
  • Oct 20, 2011
  • #4
It does really depend on what you're trying to achieve. As madmike pointed out, it is a "different" conversion in the fox bodies; however, it is certainly not the least expensive direction nor is it the most horsepower. The real appeal to the 4.6 is the drivability you get with the conversion. These DOHC motors are like sewing machines - silky smooth all over RPMs and, when done right, can be driven more often/further distances without some of the drivability issues that are common with a high hp windsor (rough idle, over heating, etc).

To do the 4.6 you will want to use MM K-member for the fox w/ the 4.6 engine mounts. That's a good starting place but it's just the beginning. I personally think that the electrical and fuel are big conversion issues with the 4.6 in a fox. You are right that many just swap over all of the electrical (dash wiring/speedo, etc). There are issues with placement of the door handles if you also don't do some type of hybrid conversion to the doors as well. If you want to keep the fox interior then look into a company called Florida 5.0. They will build you a gauge cluster that allows you to keep the fox interior and then you will have to splice the 4.6 wiring into the fox wiring harnesses. The wiring is not an easy task.

As for fuel, there are lots of opinions on how to do this, but if you don't want a sumped tank or fuel cell then I recommend you use a fuel tank from an 03/04 cobra (internally baffled). Since the fuel filler from the cobra won't match up to the foxbody you'll have to weld part of the fox filler tube to part of the cobra filler tube. Run some -8/-6 fuel lines and make it a return fuel system (unlike that used in the 03/04 cobra which was returnless).

Another option you may want to explore is putting in a new 5.0 OHC motor into your fox. Those motors can be had new for around $8K - much less than a new Cammer or 03/04 cobra motor (if you can even find them). FMS makes a plug-n-play like wiring adapter, Kooks makes header for the 5.0 in a fox, and K members are available w/ the 5.0 engine mounts. Personally, I think the 5.0 conversion is likely less expensive in the long run than doing a 4.6 conversion in a fox.
 

Mintsick

10 Year Member
Jan 6, 2007
589
39
68
West Lafayette, IN
Oct 20, 2011
#5
  • Oct 20, 2011
  • #5
^^ I can't possibly see how a Coyote swap would be cheaper than a 4.6 swap, I mean he didn't even state which flavor of 4.6 he wanted but even still there's no way.

Personally I don't see the point in it unless it's a 4v swap with boost, however I did see that Late Model Restoration put a ford racing 4.6 3v in a fairmont and the thing is wicked. I'm sure the 350hp version of that motor is not remotely cheap.
 

tunedin302

I AM the law!!!
Jul 29, 2004
1,251
2
36
Pennsylvania
Oct 20, 2011
#6
  • Oct 20, 2011
  • #6
Mintsick said:
^^ I can't possibly see how a Coyote swap would be cheaper than a 4.6 swap, I mean he didn't even state which flavor of 4.6 he wanted but even still there's no way.

Personally I don't see the point in it unless it's a 4v swap with boost, however I did see that Late Model Restoration put a ford racing 4.6 3v in a fairmont and the thing is wicked. I'm sure the 350hp version of that motor is not remotely cheap.
Click to expand...

Sure - it all depends on the direction. I was saying that going for similar horsepower engines (03/04 Cobra engine vs 5.0 engine), the 5.0 is going to be a less expensive swap. Of course there are variables but I'm really impressed with all the manufacturers making parts for the 5.0 swap. It generally makes it easier and less time consuming than a 4.6. Granted - I'm all for the 4.6 swap but there are more headaches. Some decent articles:

Coyote 5.0L engine swap into Fox Body Mustang at Carlisle done in record time | Ford Mustang Heaven

Mustang Engine Swap Guide - Take Your Powerplant To The Next Level - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

Here's some pricing too:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/products/2011-Mustang-50L-4V-Coyote-Engine-Swap-Parts
 

slow90coupe

Member
Apr 25, 2010
272
5
18
Oct 20, 2011
#7
  • Oct 20, 2011
  • #7
demon50 said:
. whats the easiest way to do this??
Click to expand...

I would say pull the old engine out, then put the new engine in the same way.
















But seriously, search and you will find your answer. Honestly not worth the swap IMO. Same power level, much more difficult to tinker with, plus parts are a zillion times more expensive.
 
B

Boss 351

Here sthhhhhhhheeeve take a picthh of my man flowe
Jul 13, 2003
2,433
23
48
Canada
Oct 21, 2011
#8
  • Oct 21, 2011
  • #8
Good info tunedin!

I'd also look at the new 5.0 for ease of installation (aftermarket support) and the N/A power it will bring in.
 

SVT32VDOHC

waiting for the next hack atta
Founding Member
Nov 22, 2001
3,501
28
119
Motor City
Oct 21, 2011
#9
  • Oct 21, 2011
  • #9
Search my name, and you'll see both my threads. One is in my sig. Project Mod-Fox and Project 81 Hack Job.
 

Mr. Rustypwnz

Advanced Member
Jun 1, 2005
1,761
63
69
indianapolis/ valdosta ga
Oct 21, 2011
#10
  • Oct 21, 2011
  • #10
I wish they made a carb intake for the coyote engine/// le-sigh..
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
8,022
1,615
194
NJ
Oct 21, 2011
#11
  • Oct 21, 2011
  • #11
tunedin302 said:
It does really depend on what you're trying to achieve. As madmike pointed out, it is a "different" conversion in the fox bodies; however, it is certainly not the least expensive direction nor is it the most horsepower. The real appeal to the 4.6 is the drivability you get with the conversion. These DOHC motors are like sewing machines - silky smooth all over RPMs and, when done right, can be driven more often/further distances without some of the drivability issues that are common with a high hp windsor (rough idle, over heating, etc).

To do the 4.6 you will want to use MM K-member for the fox w/ the 4.6 engine mounts. That's a good starting place but it's just the beginning. I personally think that the electrical and fuel are big conversion issues with the 4.6 in a fox. You are right that many just swap over all of the electrical (dash wiring/speedo, etc). There are issues with placement of the door handles if you also don't do some type of hybrid conversion to the doors as well. If you want to keep the fox interior then look into a company called Florida 5.0. They will build you a gauge cluster that allows you to keep the fox interior and then you will have to splice the 4.6 wiring into the fox wiring harnesses. The wiring is not an easy task.

As for fuel, there are lots of opinions on how to do this, but if you don't want a sumped tank or fuel cell then I recommend you use a fuel tank from an 03/04 cobra (internally baffled). Since the fuel filler from the cobra won't match up to the foxbody you'll have to weld part of the fox filler tube to part of the cobra filler tube. Run some -8/-6 fuel lines and make it a return fuel system (unlike that used in the 03/04 cobra which was returnless).

Another option you may want to explore is putting in a new 5.0 OHC motor into your fox. Those motors can be had new for around $8K - much less than a new Cammer or 03/04 cobra motor (if you can even find them). FMS makes a plug-n-play like wiring adapter, Kooks makes header for the 5.0 in a fox, and K members are available w/ the 5.0 engine mounts. Personally, I think the 5.0 conversion is likely less expensive in the long run than doing a 4.6 conversion in a fox.
Click to expand...

Na, the cobra conversion should still come in way under a 5.0 swap.
There is enough used parts available for an 03 cobra setup to do almost the entire thing without buying anything new other than the k member.
 

tunedin302

I AM the law!!!
Jul 29, 2004
1,251
2
36
Pennsylvania
Oct 21, 2011
#12
  • Oct 21, 2011
  • #12
2000xp8 said:
Na, the cobra conversion should still come in way under a 5.0 swap.
There is enough used parts available for an 03 cobra setup to do almost the entire thing without buying anything new other than the k member.
Click to expand...

My comparison was based on new parts. I think getting a wrecked 03/04 cobra and doing the swap to a fox would be cheaper than buying all new 5.0 parts. However, makes sense that the new 5.0 would cost more than a used 4.6 in that situation. New 4.6 would cost more than new 5.0. Either way, without careful planning, either swap can quickly nickel and dime you to death.
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
8,022
1,615
194
NJ
Oct 22, 2011
#13
  • Oct 22, 2011
  • #13
tunedin302 said:
My comparison was based on new parts. I think getting a wrecked 03/04 cobra and doing the swap to a fox would be cheaper than buying all new 5.0 parts. However, makes sense that the new 5.0 would cost more than a used 4.6 in that situation. New 4.6 would cost more than new 5.0. Either way, without careful planning, either swap can quickly nickel and dime you to death.
Click to expand...

I know what you are saying. Unfortunately for 5.0 swappers there just isn't any used parts to pick from. You may be able to get the engine at a discount (how much i don't know), but the power control setup, headers and other necessary parts aren't going to come cheap or used, likely ever.
I love kooks, i really do i've seen tons of their parts first hand at the shop and for the most part i think they are the best exhaust parts period, but they come at a serious premium and in most events require use of an entire system not just the headers.
Putting a kooks setup in has got to cost $1500-$2000 by the time you are done, consider my cobra headers are stock (came on engine), i used a $150 SS bassani offroad x pipe for a 96 and the catback that was already on the car.

So on one hand i understand the new vs new comparison, on the other one setup has a distinct advantage by being available on the used market.

Nickel and dime you to death? You don't have to tell me.
I think the money i was least prepared to spend was on the fuel setup, maybe because the rest of the stuff i compiled and let the fuel system be a game time decision.

For a two valve though with no power adder, you should be able to get the adapters for the fox fuel lines, convert the rails to return and just use a 255lph pump in the stock tank.
 

tunedin302

I AM the law!!!
Jul 29, 2004
1,251
2
36
Pennsylvania
Oct 23, 2011
#14
  • Oct 23, 2011
  • #14
Yup - I looked at Kooks custom headers for the 4.6 conversion and they quoted $1500-2000 for the headers only. I went with the stock 03/04 manifolds + extrude-honed + jet hot. Now, BBK for example, makes a 5.0 to fox header and it's around $550 for the pair! My next conversion will be the new 5.0.
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
8,022
1,615
194
NJ
Oct 23, 2011
#15
  • Oct 23, 2011
  • #15
tunedin302 said:
Yup - I looked at Kooks custom headers for the 4.6 conversion and they quoted $1500-2000 for the headers only. I went with the stock 03/04 manifolds + extrude-honed + jet hot. Now, BBK for example, makes a 5.0 to fox header and it's around $550 for the pair! My next conversion will be the new 5.0.
Click to expand...

My buddy suggested i have the headers extrude honed, (i'm a fan of extrude honing) but cost per hp just couldn't justify it.
Before i made my last post, i checked kooks site, i thought it said the headers were about $1050.
 

tunedin302

I AM the law!!!
Jul 29, 2004
1,251
2
36
Pennsylvania
Oct 23, 2011
#16
  • Oct 23, 2011
  • #16
2000xp8 said:
My buddy suggested i have the headers extrude honed, (i'm a fan of extrude honing) but cost per hp just couldn't justify it.
Before i made my last post, i checked kooks site, i thought it said the headers were about $1050.
Click to expand...

Right - the Kooks headers (top quality) for the 5.0/fox conversion are $1040ish. BBK released some 5.0/fox headers for around $550. I'm sure it's a situation where "you get what you pay for" but nice to see these companies are supporting the 5.0 conversion. Maybe a sign of more things to come!
 
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