MikeZ28 said:
i am not for a 5.0/351 swap. but 300bhp i don't know if you are aware of the size of the aftermarket for the 302/351 over here. plus people get there underwear wet whenever they think of the 5.0.. there are still some people that don't belive you can hit 13's in a stock 99+ they refuse too belive it because there 5.0 never hit 13's stock. so off course the 4.6 can't
I have an idea how big the aftermarket is for the 302's and it is a common engine over here for Cobra replica's and is often fitted to cars like Ford Capri's and Seirra's.
But I don't get the fasination with this AVERAGE engine, yeah sure its quite compact but its only 5.0 and will always have the limitations of cc (or 351ci if you like).
There was a big kahoot about the 5.0 v 4.6 before the 'crash' in the S197 talk area, I did a study and as a production engine the 302 never really managed much more than about 250bhp since the 1960's right thru to its demise in the 90's (yes there where limited run Cobra's and specials, but as a regular production engine it was only ever average).
As I said look around at the crate engines you can buy, they will give you an idea of the REAL power available
http://proformanceunlimited.com/ford.html
The most power 302 they sell has 380bhp, the larger cc stroked engines and the 351's are over 400bhp but only just. Is it really that hard to see this kind of power from the 4.6? Not to mention the cost factor of buying a whole new 5.0 and all the parts then getting them installed.
And think about it, if you tuned each engine to the same specific output, say 100bhp/litre
5 litres x 100bhp = 500bhp
4.6 litre x 100bhp = 460bhp
At most the 4.6 is only going to be 40bhp or so down, but with the OHC design I bet it has a higher tuning ability in terms of specific output per litre.
Of course there is then the issue of FI, but we all know the 4.6 is capable of over 700bhp with a blower, the 5.0 is harld likely to exceed it by much if any without costing more money.
I actually really like the old school grunt and sound of a push rod V8 as I'm sure many of you do to, the Chevy Ls1 and newer engines are proof that a MODERN design on this ethos can still work well, but OHC and DOHC with variable valve control and advanced valve timing multiple stage camshafts can produce a lot more.
But the old 5.0 is just that OLD, its not a new design and suffers as a result, call me a hypocrit if you will as my own car has a push rod v8, but I respect that it has limitations, e.g.
a built 5.0 = 380bhp
a new Chevy LS2 6.0 = 400bhp
TVR 4.5 flat plane crank V8 = 440bhp
Ferrari 3.6 V8 = 420bhp
The modern designed engines are just capable of more power with less capacity, I do respect that due to the cc the LS2 is capable of more power, but as a ROAD engine your only going to be looking at 500-530bhp tops, which considering the extra 1.5 litres over TVR V8 is not really much gain, and the TVR is still STOCK!
And when this tech is applied to bigger engines it get even more extreme. Take the new Z06 Vette with its 7.0 litre V8 it has a very respectable 500bhp stock, the 8.3 litre Viper also has 500bhp (which is not quite as respectable as it needs an extra 1.3 litres to do), TVR produced a 7.7 litre V12 for their road going Speed 12, this monster in stock tune made well over 800bhp, although there are reports that one such engine was fitted to a 1000bhp engine dyno, and at about 3000rpm BELOW the red line the dyno maxed out. They even had to de-tune the engine to be eligiable for GT racing where everone else was needing to generate more than stock power.
I'll be honest the mod engine is not in this league, but the DOHC variant is certainly a world class engine, the 5.0 was a great engine and for the hot rod after market tuner very very capable, but compared to larger cc big blocks and more modern designs it falls by the wayside. If 350-400bhp is all you want and you already have a 5.0 then it will do very nicly, if you want simlar power and have a 4.6 it will do just as good a job.