4.6L vs LT1/LS1

Mike97gt · May 3, 2005

UDTBadkarma said:
Well pushrod engines don't perform well at faster speeds. Thats part of the reason why camshafts were invented. They allow for faster speeds to be obtained. Now of course a camaro will do 150 no problem like the GT will. But im just saying that maybe thats why he is saying that.

your making stang drivers look bad, go away now please

Mike97gt · May 3, 2005

splogan said:
I have had a 2000 TA and a 2001 WS6 and a couple stangs. Lets say that nowhere in the powerband is the stang even close to the LS1(stock of course). If all you care about is power the TA(camaro) is the clear winner. Now the rest of the car is another story. I felt that the stangs were built better than the TA's. In 15k miles the rotors were replaced twice the t-top was resealed and other minor fit and finish issues. Who ever thought a 7.5 rearend was a good idea behind a 320+hp engine was a retard. The headlight motors and window motors are crap at best. Plus side the TA looks better and had WAY more comfortable seats.

Cliff Notes

TA(camaro) Better seating position and Raw power.

Stang : over all better car IMO

I'd want one of each, stang daily driver and TA to tinker with and terrorize the stupid ricers.

CORRECTION..

if you care about power. 03-04 cobra is the answer.

BlackenedSVT · May 3, 2005

lgndracer said:
I am at a loss for words after reading that...........

Are you trying to tell us that pushrod engines don't have camshafts, and that camshafts are newly invented?

HAHAHA yeah that was a complete typo I had there. I MEANT to say overhead cams (not camshafts)... instead of the use of camshafts in the engine combine with the pushrods. I meant to say that the pushrods put a lot of load on the valve springs and more restrictive on engine speeds, as opposed to overhead-camshafts. THAT is the technological advance i was talking about, allowing for faster engine speeds....(not neceissarily top end though)

I of course realize pushrods have one camshaft. I meant overhead cam, damnit!

As for the whole: his GT was faster or felt faster.... after all this, i forgot

Sorry for the confusion

hognutz · May 3, 2005

all bias chevy ford bs aside.

I think the chevy powerplants are superior to ford.

I think the mustang itself is a better designed car. I have less rattels leaks etc.

You can make them both run very fast.

the main advantage to the chevy powerplant is interchangabilty to me. You can buy Z06 parts slap them on a z28 and it does not cost and arm and a leg. The down side it that power plant has to come out the bottom of the car. this completely anoys me.

anyone who is going to make the pushrod argument on the 2v vs the ls1 is just ignorant in my opinion. go drive one. they rev just as nice. produce more power and get better milage due to the t-56 that comes in the car.

to me the downside to the camaro is just the car. hard to run dual exhaust so they never really sound as good. cat is right under the passanger seat. hatchback usually lets rain in when you open it. not trunk space.

hognutz · May 3, 2005

christiesledd said:
My personal opinion is the mustang, of course. Camaros will dog out on you.. that's a fact, I've known plenty of owners who say this, and their interiors will fall apart. I know a guy with a z28 ls1 and he has full exhaust, gears, lip and can put down 380 in the engine but only 310 gets to the wheels.

Advantages of camaros... well if you have a ls1 you have more horsepower from the start, and if you start modding that thing it would be hard for a mustang to keep up with you without some serious modifications. if you get a lt1 stock for stock its a drivers race and a slightly modified mustang could take a lt1 easy if they can drive worth a damn.

My opinion is that the mustang looks better and i like the heritage. whenever i see camaros I think redneck for some reason

I hate to break it to you but you mustang is still very american. most other people who see you don't think oh now there is a sophiticated man.

When I see muscle cars I think redneck. Is that bad? I am still 50% redneck. always will be. I hate imports, I hate upity people, I just don't have any old apliances in my front yard to go the 100%.

BlackenedSVT · May 3, 2005

hognutz said:
the main advantage to the chevy powerplant is interchangabilty to me. You can buy Z06 parts slap them on a z28 and it does not cost and arm and a leg. The down side it that power plant has to come out the bottom of the car. this completely anoys me.

Well that was Ford's design for the "modular" 4.6L engine. So they could be interchanged with the exploreres, GTs, cobras, etc. I'm sure there were other reasons, but thats one.

But i agree with u saying the Chevy engine/powerplant is better too. I'm sorry but the factory Cobra layin down 320 HP in 2001 and the 01 SS layin down what, 350 underrated??? Thats rediculous. Hell the Z28 had 320 with the LS1 engine didnt it? Im not a big Camaro fan, but i can appreciate their power.

hognutz · May 3, 2005

UDTBadkarma said:
Well that was Ford's design for the "modular" 4.6L engine. So they could be interchanged with the exploreres, GTs, cobras, etc. I'm sure there were other reasons, but thats one.

yeah it is a great theory they had it just doen't really fly all that well. I mean do a 2v to 4v headswap and then do a zo6 headswap on an ls1 and tell me witch goes easier.

**** there are tons of differences between just the romeo and windser 4.6l I would not even want to research all of the differences between the other product lines.

It may say modular but in reality chevy has always done a better job or using engines across platforms and interchangablity.

All that being said the fact you have to pull the motor out the bottom of the car is still not a fun task if all you have is a garage and no lift. that is why I don't like the camaro platform.

starchman · May 3, 2005

Actually, my GT just seemed to feel faster up top; my Z28 was an automatic, and it always felt like I needed another gear, whereas my GT was a 5sp, and I could downshift as I pleased. It may also have felt that way because it lacked the low-end torque of the high displacement 5.7.

CatmanJJ · May 3, 2005

It's difficult to overcome the inherent cubic inch deficiency (especially normally aspirated) between the 2 motors. I think the 4.6 does an admirable job considering it's down what 60+ CI to the LS1. The 4.6 2v still pumps out close to 300 tq. Throw the outgoing 300 hp 4v DOHC and new 300 hp 3v SOHC into the mix and Ford is doing a decent job I think coming close to matching LS1 type numbers. Then again the LS1 is yesterday's news with the new 400 hp LS2 out. But for the 4.6 to really be ahead of the LS1 with the smaller motor Ford is gonna need to build a motor that sees even more serious RPMs but that starts to threaten reliabity. Or they can bump up the CI to the 5.0 Cammer or 5.4 DOHC from the '00 SVT R but then the GT will start to lose it's class leading bang for the buck status. I wish there were some more engine choices for the Mustangs like the old days, like it'd be cool if there was a box to check when ordering a run of the mill GT where you pay a couple extra thou and get a pumped up SOHC, 4.6 DOHC motor or better yet a 5.4 DOHC instead of paying a ton of extra money for a Cobra with all the bells and whistles.

BlackenedSVT · May 3, 2005

I think ford should make a 3.8 or 4.0L V6 (like the eplorers have, i believe), a 4.6L SOHC or (even better) a 5.0L GT and a 5.4L DOHC Cobra. I think all three cars should have different motors.

And I know ford is throwing the '00 Cobra R 5.4L DOHC Engine into the new GT-500s, but I wish they would make a Cobra that had the 5.4L but was N/A. Just like the 2000 Cobra R, only not limited at all.

mr. jones1 · May 3, 2005

I doubt that I am typical vette owner. I am not bashing (avatar)chevrolet because I have a vette, that bull**. The camaro and vette LS1 engines are mostly identical. don't tell that to most vette owners. the differences are usually external like air filter. The avatar is because my son and I tease each other-Mustang verse vette.
I haven't been loyal to any brand as a matter of a fact.
big block dodge, turbo shelby daytona, 68 El Camino with zz3 crate engine, 4 spd auto, 4.10 gears, vette with ported z06 heads, 3.90 gears, cam, long tube headers.
I do all of my own work.
Now back to the question. cubic inch and weight reliability are what matter. My recomendation was based on buying a newer mustang verses a LS1, LT1. There are many low mile vettes that have been babied. with the C6 out the price of c5 are low. If you compare what you can get for 21,000 and you don't need 4 seats I will take the LS1- obviously

mto gt2000 · May 3, 2005

The vette has different heads and cam. The c5 had an ls1 with different heads and cam. The c5 zo6 had the ls2...which is what the gto has now. The new corvette has a 6.0l and the new z06 will have an ls1 427 and its about time.

Doc GTO · May 3, 2005

mto gt2000 said:
The vette has different heads and cam. The c5 had an ls1 with different heads and cam. The c5 zo6 had the ls2...which is what the gto has now. The new corvette has a 6.0l and the new z06 will have an ls1 427 and its about time.

The C5 vette, 98-up Camero/TAs, and the GTO all have the LS1. Same heads. The vette and Camero/TA went to the LS6 intake in 01. The cam specs are slightly different on the GTO to give it a little more torque lower (more weight) The Z06 has the LS6. The 05 GTO has the LS2 as does the C6 vette. The new Z06 has the LS7 as will the 06 or 07 GTO.

Hope this helps!

mto gt2000 · May 3, 2005

whatever. same thing. maybe ill see my car and buy a gto.

mustang70 · May 3, 2005

I swear I'm the only one that never had a problem with the build quality of my F-body. If I could have found a T/A for what I paid for my Mustang, I would have taken it. I had a 94 T/A that in two years I put over 50,000 miles on. And those weren't easy miles either. The only problems I had was the battery going out. And it was cheap dealer battery, so I really don't count that. And towards the end the dirver side lock button broke. After 50,000 miles of use I consider that pretty good. My interior never squeeked. I never had any parts fall off. And I think the rear suspension design is a lot better then the Mustangs. So it all comes down to what you like when you drive it. If I found a WS6 with a 6 speed for a decent price I'd be trading my Mustang in, in a heart beat.

Doc GTO · May 3, 2005

mto gt2000 said:
whatever. same thing. maybe ill see my car and buy a gto.

???

You really got me confused with that answer. This is in a tech forum so the info you give or get should at least be accurate.

splogan · May 3, 2005

MikeZ28 said:
CORRECTION..

if you care about power. 03-04 cobra is the answer.

True but everybody was referring to GT's so I was staying there, the cobra is blown so that is kinda a different animal all together, but oh so sweet.

mustang70 · May 3, 2005

Oh, and I forgot to add that the LT1 doesn't have to be dropped from the bottom. It can come out through the top. That's how my buddy got his out of the 97 Camaro.

300bhp/ton · May 4, 2005

mto gt2000 said:
The vette has different heads and cam. The c5 had an ls1 with different heads and cam. The c5 zo6 had the ls2...which is what the gto has now. The new corvette has a 6.0l and the new z06 will have an ls1 427 and its about time.

Man if your gona quote facts at least try and get them some of them right.

The regular C5 Corvette engine is the same as the Fbody engine, internally. If you by a crate motor from GM Performance for either car it will carry the same part number. Which GM rate at 320bhp SAE Net (however it does produce more power and is just underated).

They rated the Fbody's @ 305bhp SAE Net
SS Camaro/WS6 TA @ 325bhp SAE Net
C5 Corvette at 345bhp SAE Net (I think may have been 350bhp)

The later model fbody's 01+ had what was know as the LS6 intake manifold, but they had a slightly milder cam than the earlier models, they did however dyno similar numbers. Injector size also changed over the years.

The Camaro, SS, Formula, Trans Am, WS6 and C5 Corvette all produce the same amount of power. In the UK we also have the Monaro (you call it a GTO ) it also had 345bhp from the LS1 (although I think the ECU was tuned slightly differently to give a different torque curve) and there was a VXR edition with 385bhp SAE Net.

Then we come to the C5 Z06, this DID NOT HAVE AN LS2 NUM NUTS!!! it had an LS6 engine which was 5.7 litres had a slightly different block (strength wise), more agressive cam and the LS6 manifold (which was then used on the LS1's) plus a different tune (there where probably other minor changes too) this had 405bhp SAE Net.

The LS2 is a 6.0 litre with 400bhp SAE Net and was first seen in the C6 Corvette and the 05 Monaro/GTO.

The new C6 Z06 will have the LS7 7.0 litre (or 427ci) engine.

starchman · May 4, 2005

I hate to admit it (at least on this forum), but I sure would like to test drive the 05 goat. It may be ugly, but you can't really argue with the hp/tq from a 6L LS2.

4.6L vs LT1/LS1

Mike97gt

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