410/4R70W/T4M0 ... stock tune for engine break-in?

[BlackVert]

Ok, here's my dilemma. My car has a newly built 410 (not even broken in yet) going into it with 42# injectors and a LMAF. It also has a 4R70W transmission going into it. It was a manual, so it has a T4M0 calibration.

My installer is buttoning things up, so he will be ready to fire it up soon. I want him to be able to start it up so he can break it in and re-torque the heads and do all the initial break-in stuff. But he doesn't have a laptop and has never used a TwEECer before.

I have a TwEECer for the tuning, but the car is in PA, near Breezewood, 1 1/2 hours away, and I do not see myself having time to get up there to load a new tune on it very soon.

If possible, I'd like to avoid having to make a 3 hour trip just to load a tune onto it.

So, here's my question: is it safe to use the T4M0 tune just to break the engine in (not to drive it of course), and then when I go up to take it home, we can load the tune into it and drive it?

 

[Don 95Vert]

I would put the stock injectors and MAF into it for break-in, then do the tune. Nothing worse for ring break-in than a rich motor washing the cylinders down. Naturally stay out of it, just do the normal break in stuff, like lots of engine braking and vary speeds a lot. If you mean trying to run it with the LMAF and 42's and no tune, it probably won't even start and if it did, I wouldn't run a brand new motor that way. Having to swap the 42's and LMAF in after break in is a lot of trouble, but far less than dealing with a new oil burning motor.

Hope you are not planning on having the T4M0 control the tranny, because it will not. You'll need a manual VB or a Bauman controller or the best alternative a W4H0 or U4P0 processor. You can see the tranny controls in the TwEECer with the CBAZA strategy, but from what I have been told, (never actually tried it) the hardware to control it all is not onboard on the T4M0.
Don

 

[BlackVert]

I would put the stock injectors and MAF into it for break-in, then do the tune. Nothing worse for ring break-in than a rich motor washing the cylinders down. Naturally stay out of it, just do the normal break in stuff, like lots of engine braking and vary speeds a lot. If you mean trying to run it with the LMAF and 42's and no tune, it probably won't even start and if it did, I wouldn't run a brand new motor that way. Having to swap the 42's and LMAF in after break in is a lot of trouble, but far less than dealing with a new oil burning motor.

Hope you are not planning on having the T4M0 control the tranny, because it will not. You'll need a manual VB or a Bauman controller or the best alternative a W4H0 or U4P0 processor. You can see the tranny controls in the TwEECer with the CBAZA strategy, but from what I have been told, (never actually tried it) the hardware to control it all is not onboard on the T4M0.
Don

Thanks, Don.

My engine builder says to initially run it at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes, and then re-torque the heads and re-lash the rockers. So I can do that with the T4M0 if I install stock injectors and MAF, right? Or is that not the best way to break an engine in?

Re the processor: I was planning on just loading a W4H0 tune (with updates for the CID and injector slopes and gear ratios) onto the processor that is in there. But if I am reading you correctly, you are saying that won't work because there is some hardware missing inside the computer that will keep it from correctly controlling the transmission? Holy crap! If that is true, that is a major monkey wrench.

So when you did this swap, can I assume that your car was originally an auto and your computer was already a W4H0 or U4P0?

One other question: what is the difference between the W4H0 and the U4P0 calibrations?

 

[Don 95Vert]

OK, if that's what youe engine builder said to do, follow his advice. Yes, I'd do that with the stock injectors and MAF. That way if anything goes wrong, you did follow what he said to do.

Yep, I am throwing a major monkey wrench in your plans. You do need an auto processor to control the auto - and you do need to compensate for the 4R70W in the tune. Not too much different in the W4H0/U4P0 either will work, mostly tranny calibration changes and changes for different gear ratios. Shouldn't be a big hassle, because no one wants auto processors - I bet if you post requesting one, you'll get a lot of replies. Most people go the other way.

My old Mustang was a T4M0 and when I went to the auto, I bought a W4H0 for it. Now that it has a TKO600, I think it still has the W4H0 with the auto functions shut off. We did have a T4M0 but I don't remember where it went...

 

[BlackVert]

Thanks again. So I guess I'll be looking for a W4H0/U4P0 computer asap

What, if anything, needs to be done to the harness?

 

[Don 95Vert]

Depends on how your internal VB tranny wiring harness is done - if you have a 'wire' style harness then you should be good. If you have a later model all-in-one plastic connector with an intergral TOT sensor, then you have to make a bunch of changes to the vehicle harness going into the tranny. If it does have a plastic connector, the easiest thing to do it is to convert it to a an earlier model 'wire' style VB harness - I'd swap in new 94-95 style shift solenoids and use a late model EPC. The early style connector will not fit the EPC for a late model, you need to cut the connector off and use small female spade connectors - you would need to add a TOT sensor to it also. Also be 100% sure the converter clutch solenoid is for a 94-95 Mustang - if you run a later style, it'll burn up the solenoid and maybe take the PCM with it.

To do it the other way - changing the wires around - go to TCCOA.com and look at the tranny article. I would not do it this way though mainly because you have to use an early style CCS and the connector won't snap on it unless you cut away the connector skirt and I don't know how great the connection would be that way.

 

[reddy351]

My engine builder says to initially run it at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes, and then re-torque the heads and re-lash the rockers.

Are you using a roller cam? That break-in method is for a flat tappet cam.

Also, is he using Fel-Pro gaskets? If they are, the head gaskets shouldn't need re-torqued.

If he knows that and is doing these things "for safety's sake", I'd agree with him. You have spent a bunch of $$$ to get this far. If he is just not "in the know" about roller cams and such, I'd question that.

I can't wait to hear what this thing is going to do!

 

[BlackVert]

Are you using a roller cam? That break-in method is for a flat tappet cam.

Also, is he using Fel-Pro gaskets? If they are, the head gaskets shouldn't need re-torqued.

If he knows that and is doing these things "for safety's sake", I'd agree with him. You have spent a bunch of $$$ to get this far. If he is just not "in the know" about roller cams and such, I'd question that.

I can't wait to hear what this thing is going to do!

i'll ask him about the break-in differences between a roller and a flat tappet cam.

what is the "proper" break-in procedure for a motor with a hyd roller cam?

 

[blksn955.o]

hyd. roller should not need any break-in...your just going to want to get the rings to seat. From what I read when I broke in my new motor (roller cam) with cyl. prep tech. and ring tech. now days its an almost instant seat.

Damn near everyone I asked said if its a roller get it warmed up check for leaks and such and change the oil and run the piss outta it. One guy even directed me to a webpage on brake ins that said the engines that are broken in "hard" end up with less blow-by and better seated parts.

To me it came down to...if its going to blow up at 5k rpm its going to blow up at 5k rpm no matter if its the 2nd startup or 50th.

flat tappet cams need the var. in break-in to get the lifter and cam lobes all setup.

 

[reddy351]

+1...no "break-in" with a roller cam.

Rings are "seated" by variably loading the engine while driving. They say to keep revs below 3000, for 500 miles. (regular oil, no synthetic for this) I've also heard though that "drive it the way you are going to be driving it, everyday" to break it it, too.