5.0 Mustang Nitrous Build. First Mustang, And First Time Using Nitrous

[Robert Thompson]

Hello, my name is Robert and I am in the process of rebuilding a 5.0 mexican block for a friend. I would like to get a custom grind cam for the build.

I am a GM guy so I know who to go to when I need a cam done. What are some good places to go to get a cam done for a mustang?

As the title states we will be using nitrous. The block will have a scat forged rotating assembly. I know for cast pistons you want to use a bigger piston ring end gap when using nitrous. Would that be true for a forged piston as well or do you gap it like normal since the forged piston can take more stress?

Having a carburetor and no PCM how can I control ignition retard for when the nitrous hits?

How do you run and control the supplementary fuel? Add a second pump to the tank and run lines and a regulator to the fogger with a solenoid?

Thanks in advance.

-Robert

 

[Bullitt347]

Hello, my name is Robert and I am in the process of rebuilding a 5.0 mexican block for a friend. I would like to get a custom grind cam for the build.

I am a GM guy so I know who to go to when I need a cam done. What are some good places to go to get a cam done for a mustang?


-Robert

Welcome Robert. First things first....If you know who to go to for a cam for a GM, well, that same guy, if he is worth a damn, should be able to make a cam for a Ford. The design criteria are the same. Any cam designer will design based on what the engine wants, which is based on cylinder head selection, exhaust, intake, gear, tire, weight, trans, usage and on and on and on.

 

[RangerJoe]

Welcome. Your ring gaps will need to be larger if the motor is being built for spray. A small shot, like under 150, can get away with stock size gaps, but I would follow the piston manufactures recommendation on that.

Timing can be retarded at the distributor, but will mean that you have to leave on the reduced timing. Another option is to use an MSD box with a built in timing retard feature.

I have just started using the NOS mini progressive controller and I would really recommend it for the price, ease of use and features. It can signal the MSD box so it will pull timing.

For your other questions about fuel and auxiliary tanks, I would recommend reading through the nitrous section on Yellowbullet. Also, talk to some big name nitrous companies, like Induction Solutions.

What is the rest of the combo and how much are you going to spray?

Joe

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

The manufacturer of your Pistons, and/or ring set will be the best person to ask about potential ring end gap for the ring set you install.

I agree w/ Bullit347, if the cam grinder don't know nothin' about any other engine other than a GM, he wouldn't be my choice for a cam in any engine....( including a GM). In actuality, the benefit that A nitrous profile camshaft would offer doesn't come into play until you really start throwing stupid amounts of nitrous at the engine ( in excess of a 200 hp shot) if you have no experience w/nitrous, jumping off in something that deep will more than likely get you a bunch of broken, burned up stuff, until you get comfortable with using it, or have somebody that knows what to look for in the tune.

I always used a seperate enrichment fuel system mounted up front for my nitrous engines, and they all had carburetors. There are plenty of suppliers making 1 gal fuel cells for just that purpose,..but again, it all depends on how much nitrous you intend to use..200hp+ would always warrant a seperate system.

As stated,..there are seperate controllers from MSD ( and others) to allow you to leave the distributor at a set timing curve and will take timing away as soon as the solenoids get activated..as opposed to setting the distributor back statically, the engine will behave much better in its N/A stare ( i.e. Idling, burn outs, staging) if you use the seperate controller.

But all of this is moot anyway...the best advice you can get comes from the tech guy that sells the junk you are attempting to use...id never buy one guys junk, and come on here asking how to use/set it.

A purpose built nitrous engine will still exceed the capabilities of the block, regardless of its Mexican architecture.
As it will when using any power adder.
Power limitations of a Ford small block have always hovered around 500 hp,.Unless you have a real strong understanding of where you are tune wise the engine will show you those limitations real quick.

 

[cleanLX]

I've attached pictures of what a stock/mexican block likes to do... this was a 306 making ~330whp n/a running a 150 shot and shifting at 6500rpm.
This thing was well built and well tuned with good balanced internals. I would guess it had less than 50 runs on it, and I know it had zero street miles.
Back in the day our club was littered with these things.

 

[A5literMan]

^^^ what they said

 

[Robert Thompson]

Wow thank you for all the info, that should get me started in the right direction.

To answer the question about the rest of the setup, The engine has canfield heads, vic jr single plane, electric water pump, manual rack, T5 trans which will become an auto when it blows. weld wheels skinnies with slicks

The car is not a daily driver. the car has been rotisserie-d It is gutted and caged 5 pt harness and all that jazz, very light car. It is towed to any race we attend. a 200 shot is the lowest we plan on spraying.

I like the idea of using a separate box to retard the timing only when needed. How does the box accomplish this? The only other way i can see how timing could change is through the mechanical advance.

Now a nitrous controller and an igntion box to retard the timing are two separate boxes right aka two separate things to buy? The way I am picturing it is: nitrous controller, to the retard box, to the distributor.

Thanks again for the help

-Robert

 

[revhead347]

You are talking about a production block and ring gap for nitrous in the same post. Any engine that is running enough nitrous to require a ring gap adjustment is going to push the limits of a production block pretty hard. I pushed a production block harder than just about anyone on Stangnet, and that says something. Ford 302 blocks don't have as much meat in the webbing as SBCs. It's something to consider.

Kurt

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

It looks like to me that you are attempting to build a big power nitrous combo on a stock block, with zero knowledge of any component of what is required to have it survive.
8.8 rear w/ stock 28 spline axles, and no C clip eliminators I'm guessing as well?

Like I said, read, and talk to the people that make and sell this junk...
You will not have good luck with the combo unless you plan on selling tickets as an exhibition vehicle.

 

[cleanLX]

I'm not too knowledgeable on this topic... block filling... but some folks seem to have had success beating a stock block that has been hard filled.
Since this is a track only car, and, seems the the stock block is staying, I'd suggest you look into that option. Be a shame to chance ruining that forged rotating assembly... while chancing splitting the stock block. Even with a lowly 306, Canfield heads, cam'd well and running some compression (which for a track car why not?) it's going to be ~500fwhp n/a. (guessing you'll be shifting up over 7000rpm as well... pushing 8000?), which in itself is *cough* pushing the stock block... Adding 200+ n2o is a certain way to further limit it's life span.
Lots of folks that have a stock mexican block will tell you it's stronger the a "stock" block. Guys that build Ford engines for a living will tell you it's not worth the time looking for one, and everyone that's ruined one will tell you it's no better than a stock block.

 

[RangerJoe]

Wow thank you for all the info, that should get me started in the right direction.

To answer the question about the rest of the setup, The engine has canfield heads, vic jr single plane, electric water pump, manual rack, T5 trans which will become an auto when it blows. weld wheels skinnies with slicks

The car is not a daily driver. the car has been rotisserie-d It is gutted and caged 5 pt harness and all that jazz, very light car. It is towed to any race we attend. a 200 shot is the lowest we plan on spraying.

I like the idea of using a separate box to retard the timing only when needed. How does the box accomplish this? The only other way i can see how timing could change is through the mechanical advance.

Now a nitrous controller and an igntion box to retard the timing are two separate boxes right aka two separate things to buy? The way I am picturing it is: nitrous controller, to the retard box, to the distributor.

Thanks again for the help

-Robert

Yes, 3 separate parts. Nitrous controller, the, Msd box, then distributor. Not 100% certain, but this my require an msd distributor to make work correctly.

Like others have stated, stock block is pretty weak. I am running a middle of the road 331, maybe 420hp, with a 100 shot on top of that. Only a few passes so far and watching the plugs closely.

I would suggest looking at an aftermarket block and some really good pistons with plenty of meat in the ring lands. From what I have researched, it seems this is the first failure spot, if you don't melt the engine down all at one time.

Joe

 

[revhead347]

I'm not too knowledgeable on this topic... block filling... but some folks seem to have had success beating a stock block that has been hard filled.

Filling is popular on Chevy engines. Not sure I have ever seen it done on a Ford. The Ford blocks are weakest between the cam and main bearings, and filling doesn't do anything for that.

Kurt

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

My existing banger is short filled. The 363 was shirt filled, as was every 460 that I raced during the 90's

The benefit to filling the block adds structural integrity to the lower part of it to include the main webbing, and to potentially stabilize the cylinder better.

Some will tell you that filling the block makes it harder to keep cool,...in the case of the existing banger, I cannot get it hot...so,..if done right,...not a problem.

 

[mikestang63]