5.4 2v swap quick questions???

[GoBabyVroommm]

Well guys i know its been a long time since I had a 4.6. I'm sure some of you old guys remember be QQ'n about the 4.6 and how I thought pushrod motors were better even after i did the 4v cobra swap. Looks like am a modular guy after all. Lol After my 2 5.0s that were n/a and the other that was blown I missed my modular 4v cobra.

My questions:
Should i get the new 3v 5.4 or the older one?
Can I use the stock K-member?
Have they made a intake yet for the swap?
How much hp can i get out of it with ported heads/n/a cams?
Can i use a tko600 trans or t45?
Will the trans be in the same location? < meaning direct bolt up>
Is there Long tubes for the swap or should i make my own? My friends shop makes custom parts for race cars.
How much rwhp can the stock short block hold?

When i did the 4v cobra swap it was $6000+ what am i looking to spend on this on? Btw My friend has his own shop so i'll be doing my old work except the porting of the heads.

Has anyone on the stangnet done it so i can pm from time to time and compare notes. I not worried about anything custom cause I can have it made at the shop.

Anything help will be very helpful I got the stang but don't have a direction yet with it.

 

[SXYXC]

i don't know how much people on this forum know about the 5.4L swap.. (not trying to be mean)

but if you are really interested in it, go over to mustangboards.com they have there own post with nothing but 5.4 stats and everything in it. over there they will be able to help you..

and yes there are intakes now availble, and as for long tube, ask Red over at mustangboards i know he started to make some, and was trying to get them in production. he has done a lot of cool thinks for the 5.4l

(sorry if it seems i am bashing this forum in this thread...)

 

[GoBabyVroommm]

i don't know how much people on this forum know about the 5.4L swap.. (not trying to be mean)

but if you are really interested in it, go over to mustangboards.com they have there own post with nothing but 5.4 stats and everything in it. over there they will be able to help you..

and yes there are intakes now availble, and as for long tube, ask Red over at mustangboards i know he started to make some, and was trying to get them in production. he has done a lot of cool thinks for the 5.4l

(sorry if it seems i am bashing this forum in this thread...)

Not sounding mean at all. Thank you for the info. I've been reading up on it last night not to long after i made the thread. But by the looks of things I might just go with a turbo. Still reading so i'll figure it out soon enough. Thanks man

 

[SXYXC]

the thing that gets most ppl with the 5.4L swap is that its seems really hard, and complicated, but really reading on it, its not. plus with the 5.4L swap you can have the same mods as a 4.6L be around the same HP rating (maybe a little higher) but you will have loads more torque, and torque is fun and they are also coming out with new things for it almost everyday.

(personaly i would love to have the money to build a 5.4L DOHC engine out of the navi adn drop it in...)

 

[TGJ]

N/A 5.4 2V and N/A 5.4 3V engines always make more torque than a similar 4.6L and always make less horsepower than a similar 4.6L. The best 2V and 3V heads( PORTED ) do not flow enough air N/A for the 5.4L. Typically it is 17 - 40 RWHP less...

There is a lot of speculation that the new Trickflow 2V head is going to change things. I don't see how as ported 3V heads flow significantly more than the new Trick Flow heads do.

If you plan on staying N/A and swapping a 5.4L, your best bet is to go with the best 4V heads( PORTED ) you can afford. Only the best 4V heads flow enough air for a N/A 5.4L to make more power than a similar 4.6L. That is a FACT...

 

[billfisher]

why is 215ish CFM good enough for a pushrod 331, but when its a modular suddenly its not enough for t-bird/cougar guys?









ported 3v heads flow 300cfm with 1mm oversize valves, and 285 with stock valves. that sounds to me like it's more than stock 4v or TFS.

New - Livernois Motorsports - Browsing Store

but that's just me. other will argue otherwise in the facw of facts.



BTW if STOCK 4v heads are good for 385hp (boss290), then why aren't ported 3v better when they MURDER stock 04 4v?



dude ported 3v will make all the power you need, the trick is a N/A intake manifold. MMR is the only one who makes a decent intake. and its 2900.00. FI you can get a lower from roush or whipple.

 

[TGJ]

why is 215ish CFM good enough for a pushrod 331, but when its a modular suddenly its not enough for t-bird/cougar guys?

ported 3v heads flow 300cfm with 1mm oversize valves, and 285 with stock valves. that sounds to me like it's more than stock 4v or TFS.

New - Livernois Motorsports - Browsing Store

but that's just me. other will argue otherwise in the facw of facts.


BTW if STOCK 4v heads are good for 385hp (boss290), then why aren't ported 3v better when they MURDER stock 04 4v?

dude ported 3v will make all the power you need, the trick is a N/A intake manifold. MMR is the only one who makes a decent intake. and its 2900.00. FI you can get a lower from roush or whipple.

Bill, I am not going to play any more games with you. I am going to tell you exactly how it is.

You are stupid. Time for you to realize that. I am not the idiot who tried and failed to make a 5.4 3V N/A project. Last I recall, My not very exotic 5.0L 2V N/A project destroyed the numbers your failed 5.4 3V N/A project did.

Do you have a reading problem?

First, where did I mention stock 4V heads? I think I clearly stated ported 4V heads which clearly flow more than ported 3V heads...

If you plan on staying N/A and swapping a 5.4L, your best bet is to go with the best 4V heads( PORTED ) you can afford. Only the best 4V heads flow enough air for a N/A 5.4L to make more power than a similar 4.6L. That is a FACT...

Yes, it is pretty clear I did... It is too bad some can't read...

A built N/A 5.4L 3V with a good intake manifold and ported 3V heads has made 390 RWHP. There is more than 5 N/A 4.6L 3V over 400 RWHP N/A, with one flirting with 420 RWHP. It is pretty clear that the N/A 5.4 3V is weaker than the N/A 4.6L 3V...

Food for thought... The 5.0L Cammer makes 450 HP with the same compression ratio, less flowing 4V heads, same cams and less flowing Intake Manifold than the N/A Cobra R 5.4L 4V did. That is 65 more HP than the Cobra R made. Why did that happen? When you can answer that question, it will answer your question regarding the SBF compared to a Modular...

 

[Winters98GT]

here we, again, I mean, for the hundredth time.....


opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[GoBabyVroommm]

O man new faces to on here going at it. I remember i use to do that with one guy on this forum.

Well dropping the 5.4L in the car is easy, wouldn't b e a problem. The thing i'm looking at is, is it worth the money to go to a 5.4. Sure its a 281 vs a 331 more cubic inchs. But if i wanna make about 400 stock motor and 550 rwhp build short block with a turbo, you guys think its worth it jumping to a 5.4?

From what i'm reading I think my 99 4v swap from the 96 2v was the right idea over the 5.4L swap a few years ago.

With the 4v stuff I kind of wanna stay away from it cause it don't think its worth the extra money when you can build a 4.6 and boost it, either with a blower or turbo. So it looks like i might be in a fork in the road.

 

[TGJ]

O man new faces to on here going at it. I remember i use to do that with one guy on this forum.

Well dropping the 5.4L in the car is easy, wouldn't b e a problem. The thing i'm looking at is, is it worth the money to go to a 5.4. Sure its a 281 vs a 331 more cubic inchs. But if i wanna make about 400 stock motor and 550 rwhp build short block with a turbo, you guys think its worth it jumping to a 5.4?

From what i'm reading I think my 99 4v swap from the 96 2v was the right idea over the 5.4L swap a few years ago.

With the 4v stuff I kind of wanna stay away from it cause it don't think its worth the extra money when you can build a 4.6 and boost it, either with a blower or turbo. So it looks like i might be in a fork in the road.

You were right when you did your 4V swap. Things haven't changed much.

If you are looking at 400 RWHP N/A, you won't hit that number with a 5.4 2V, you might get close with a 5.4 3V. A 4.6L 2V with Trick Flow heads might get you close to 400 RWHP, 4.6L 3V have already achieved that feat.

It is not worth going to a 5.4 unless you plan on FI and running lots of boost.

 

[billfisher]

well, TGJ you are one smart fellow. genius i might say. nuf said.


for my 500rwhp. its 4.6 4v and a turbo.

 

[billfisher]

talk to the guys on modular fords forums about a turbo 5.4 3v. go to the swaps forum and get ahold of twin turbo ranger.

 

[Winters98GT]

well, TGJ you are one smart fellow. genius i might say. nuf said.


for my 500rwhp. its 4.6 4v and a turbo.

Seems like a lot of work to go for 500rwhp

why are you going from a 5.4 back to the 4.6 when you have pretty much raved about them for the last year?

 

[BurningRubber]

Well guys i know its been a long time since I had a 4.6. I'm sure some of you old guys remember be QQ'n about the 4.6 and how I thought pushrod motors were better even after i did the 4v cobra swap. Looks like am a modular guy after all. Lol After my 2 5.0s that were n/a and the other that was blown I missed my modular 4v cobra.

My questions:
Should i get the new 3v 5.4 or the older one?
Can I use the stock K-member?
Have they made a intake yet for the swap?
How much hp can i get out of it with ported heads/n/a cams?
Can i use a tko600 trans or t45?
Will the trans be in the same location? < meaning direct bolt up>
Is there Long tubes for the swap or should i make my own? My friends shop makes custom parts for race cars.
How much rwhp can the stock short block hold?

When i did the 4v cobra swap it was $6000+ what am i looking to spend on this on? Btw My friend has his own shop so i'll be doing my old work except the porting of the heads.

Has anyone on the stangnet done it so i can pm from time to time and compare notes. I not worried about anything custom cause I can have it made at the shop.

Anything help will be very helpful I got the stang but don't have a direction yet with it.

I'll throw in my two cents...

The majority of the swaps have used the 2v 5.4, as it is a simpler swap.

Bolts right into the K-member just as a 4.6 does, so no swapping it.

HPS has released a 4.6 2v to 5.4 2v specific intake manifold that supposidly flows well, especially in comparison to adaptor plates. Memory tells me its around $600?

Not sure on HP figures, there are alot of numbers being thrown around.

I have read it will bolt right up to a T-45, not sure about a TKO-600.

Direct bolt up. The motor is just wider, not any difference length wise to my knowledge.

There is one guy who is making a set of custom longtubes, in hopes to market them to the rest of the guys doing the swap. He has alot of time and money invested into it. His name is r3dn3ck (or maybe its r3dneck?) on the forums with that huge swap article. Aside from that, no companies offer longtubes for this swap.

The same as a 4.6 2v... 400-450rwhp depending on who you ask, on a GREAT tune.


Hope that helps.

 

[mustangman9812]

Well I think anything can be made fast if you have enough $$$$$

I think a 5.4 4v with forced induction would be a good setup. I know 3v might be the thing but i would rather go 4v

 

[Midnight2V]

Thought i might chime in as well regarding 5.4 vs 4.6. The major reason you see that the 4.6 will typically make more peak power than the 5.4 is simple. The bore size on the modular is a MAJOR bottleneck and has been the bane of the mod motor's existence from a performance perspective. In any cylinder head, on any four stroke Otto-cycle motor, air flows around the valves, not through them. You dont just use bigger valves to get more power, you have to increase the REAL flow area, (not the gross flow area). When a third of the intake valve is shrouded by the cylinder wall, how much air is going to flow around that part of the valve? This problem is further complicated in the case of the 5.4. Look at it as basically a 4.6 stroker, you are significantly increasing friction, creating higher piston speeds, increasing rotating mass acceleration (major power loss), and most importantly losing pumping efficiency.

This last one is incredibly significant. Air is a fluid, just as water is also a fluid. Unlike water, air is compressible and expandible. The problem is that for the extra .6 inches of stroke you have in the 5.4, it is at the bottom of the cylinder. when the piston is at the top of the cylinder, it draws the air in the fastest and most effeciently, as the piston moves downward and accelerates, the air will literally stretch to fill the cylinder even as the piston draws more air in. Mathematically, the further the piston is away from the valve, the less percent change in air charge volume per displacement increase.

To get back to simpler terminology...from a performance aspect, going to a 5.4 setup from a 4.6 setup is literally taking the worst aspects of our beloved mod motors, and magnifying them. In other words...this is not the best use of an increase in displacement, which is the bedrock principle of why the Cammer makes more power and torque with more modest components.

Rather than spend the money on a 5.4 mill for a minimal power increase, why not get the new boss 5.0 block? This block will literally give your modular exactly what it needs...breathing room! It is one of the strongest mod blocks ever made and tested to 1200 HP. It even fits the exact dimensions of the 4.6 and you can bolt any modular head to it, but make sure you get the heads machined for the increased bore size.

If you need more than the (piddly) 305cid it has, just stroke it out to 322-324cid (using a 3.75"-3.80" stroke). In a ported 4V setup, you can produce ridiculous levels of power. Now, at just 6cid less than a 5.4 (330cid), you will be making more power, more torque, and more smiles than you ever would in a 5.4.

As for cost, it ain't cheap, but then we aren't in this hobby to pinch pennies. A built, forged shortblock with your choice of pistion dish is available from companies like dss, modular performance, and others. The lowest i have seen is modular performance, 5400 for the 5.0 setup and 5900 for the 5.3 setup. I would call that a serious bargain when you can take all your parts and bolt them right on.

I hope this helps

 

[SVT32VDOHC]

You can use any stock K-frame for a 5.4L from 96-04. You will need hydroboost brakes and there is no need for longtube headers. Just put new manifolds on because the used ones all rot out and cause exhaust leaks, or buy shorties.

 

[billfisher]

Seems like a lot of work to go for 500rwhp

why are you going from a 5.4 back to the 4.6 when you have pretty much raved about them for the last year?

gas mileage. there is no doubt in my mind i have cracked the intake issue. (low rm only). but i hate to drive this thing at 60mph with a lean as hell tune. it is no fun.

i drive 160miles per day. i like to harrass other 'fast' cars. i could simply have forged this and put a big turbo to go efter my new quarry. see, i was out to take on most LS cars, and that is old news. when i ran 8.5, and i tuned it, running faster than LS cars stopped being fun. we all know the cammed, intaked, headered LS's are out of my league, but the average joe with just a few mods or none at all is not really that fast compared to me.

i took the gears out but i bet my life this motor will run 7.99's as it is tuned for 93. especially with losing 150lbs over last year and having a decent tune.



so my new quarry is late model Z06's. i would have to boost to do it with the 5.4, so why not just build a solid 4.6 4v and do it. in no boost tune 87 octane shoot for 30+mpg AND full boost go after the local Z06 guys.