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Resolved 5.4 4v - 03 GT - LOW TPS Voltage

  • Thread starter Thread starter VenomousISA
  • Start date Start date May 24, 2023

VenomousISA

Member
Jun 29, 2020
10
1
13
Southern California
May 24, 2023
#1
  • May 24, 2023
  • #1
Bare with me, its a story.

Brothers car. A Frankenstein build

Initially a budget build, but I told my brother, the cheaper you go, the more problems. Taddaaa - here I am in his behalf.

2003 Mustang GT
2003 GT PCM
5.4 4v swapped Navigator engine.
SCT handheld tuner - with GT style tune

Car was running good initially with karkraft intake spacers with 99 Cobra Intake Manifold.

Then more parts came. and so did the problems.

MMR intake spacers
5.0 Coyote Velocity Intake Manifold
1993 year 5.0 style - 90mm Accufab Intake Plenum
Appropriate spacers to make it all work.

Notching the slots for the 99-04 style TPS sensor, I was once able to get it in the KOEO closed throttle 0.90v range but the sensor was not a direct fit to the 1993 Accufab mounting points, so it wouldn't stay within range because of the circular mounting lip elevating sensor from plenum.

Fast forward, we instead opted to get a 1993 style TPS sensor since it would theoretically mate up perfectly. Matched wires from 93 sensor to 99-04 harness and crimped them down for now.

Went online, found forums on TPS over the past 15 years. Nothing matched my scenario, or if it was close, the OP never posted results or ignored the community on advice.

So I took my FLUKE Voltmeter and started at it. Fast learner - here I go.

The issues:
Surging idle, RPM's would rise as the temperature of the car would rise. ~1,100 through ~2,200 rpms.
If I disconnect the IAC, absolutely nothing happens to the idle.
The MAF is an 2001 style MAF; so no integrated IAT.
&
The IAT is currently missing and plan to add that this weekend. PID's show this sensor at 100 degrees constantly in the SCT handheld scanner.

KOEO
TPS - 93' 5.0 'Standard' brand

Signal Wire (red probe) / White/Grey Ground Wire (black probe)
Closed: -0.252v
WOT: -1.600v maximum
yes, increases from low value to WOT value at good rate
Question: Why negative values & Why is it soo low?

KOEO

5v Reference -
Brown/white (red probe) / white/grey (black probe) = 4.779v
Brown/white (red probe) / Accufab Plenum = 5.036v
Brown/white (red probe) / Shock tower ground = 5.040v

without key - engine off
Resistance test
Brown/white (red probe) / negative battery terminal while connected = 2.626
Brown/white (red probe) / negative battery with terminal disconnected = 0.846


This realm of car electronics is new to me, please critique and help me figure this out.

94-04 Haynes Manual
 

VenomousISA

Member
Jun 29, 2020
10
1
13
Southern California
May 24, 2023
#2
  • May 24, 2023
  • #2
@Mustang5L5

You are one of the select few individuals I have my sights set on to help me out. Take a crack at this.
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
43,050
21,219
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Box behind Walmart
May 24, 2023
#3
  • May 24, 2023
  • #3
Sorry @Mustang5L5 . I ratted you and a few others out.
 

VenomousISA

Member
Jun 29, 2020
10
1
13
Southern California
May 24, 2023
#4
  • May 24, 2023
  • #4
Not so fast there @Noobz347 - I have concrete material in my hand that I have printed out from @Mustang5L5 on a 2013 post with JRichker that I took home with me to try and resolve my issue. hahaha

But you did help me jumpstart this thread! So thanks for that.
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
43,050
21,219
234
Box behind Walmart
May 24, 2023
#5
  • May 24, 2023
  • #5
No worries. Good luck with it
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,249
17,934
224
Massachusetts
May 24, 2023
#6
  • May 24, 2023
  • #6
What did I say in 2013? It's been a while so some things might have changed.

I'm not as good with SN95 cars as I am with fox electrical as it's been some time since I've owned my 2003. The Fox cars do not require a specific set voltage point and can accept a pretty wide range. Based on what i've seen from the A9L, it's 0.5-1.25V. The internet quotes a lot of different numbers but that's taken directly from the A9x programming that someone shared with me years ago. Anything at idle is acceptable and the ECU will just take that as a reference voltage so it knows when WOT is achieved.

Sn95 cars are the same way, but I do not know the acceptable range. It's not an absolute number, but a range.

Also, do not test the signal wire to vehicle ground. You want to test that to sensor ground. So really Gray/Red to the Gray/white and see what voltage you get there. Going to battery ground may give you a different reading
 

VenomousISA

Member
Jun 29, 2020
10
1
13
Southern California
May 24, 2023
#7
  • May 24, 2023
  • #7
Your were chiming in with Jrichker helping a fellow member @89blufox, your statement was regarding 5v on power wire. Taking what both of you said, I have been trying to dial in my situation. I can't seem yet to figure out why my signal wire is sending such low voltage through the range.

I am led to believe its either a bad 'standard' sensor or I have my signal wire grounding somewhere in the harness.

In my case, I did exactly that, signal wire and signal ground with KOEO.

KOEO
TPS - 93' 5.0 'Standard' brand on my 2003 ECU GT
Signal Wire (red probe) / White/Grey Ground Wire (black probe)
Closed: -0.252v
WOT: -1.600v maximum

Question: Why negative values & Why is it soo low?
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,249
17,934
224
Massachusetts
May 24, 2023
#8
  • May 24, 2023
  • #8
I think your gray/red is the signal ground, but that's going off your providing wiring diagram. I think the 5Vref is the brown/white wire.

Brown/white (red probe) to Gray/red (black probe) = ?
Gray/white (red probe) to Gray/Red (black probe) = ?
 

VenomousISA

Member
Jun 29, 2020
10
1
13
Southern California
May 24, 2023
#9
  • May 24, 2023
  • #9
I will post up the results when I get home later this evening....

Wouldn't it be something if I installed the 93' TPS wrong by inverting the wires....

I went ahead and provided the 2 pages from Haynes for reference if you want to take a 2nd look.



 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,249
17,934
224
Massachusetts
May 24, 2023
#10
  • May 24, 2023
  • #10




I think read that wiring diagram same as the above. Gray/red is your sensor ground. Black probe there.

So try

Brown/white (red probe) to Gray/red (black probe) = ? (should be 5V)
Gray/white (red probe) to Gray/Red (black probe) = ?


Here's the fox sensor wiring for reference just to verify you've hooked the right colors to the SN95 wiring harness. Like i stated before, the desired set voltages are all over the place on the internet.

 
Last edited: May 24, 2023
Reactions: VenomousISA

VenomousISA

Member
Jun 29, 2020
10
1
13
Southern California
May 25, 2023
#11
  • May 25, 2023
  • #11
Disregard this issue everyone; its been resolved. 2 accidentally swapped wires for the TPS at the base harness caused this issue!

Now, we are at:
KOEO TPS
Closed: 0.83v
incrementally rises to
WOT: 4.650v

Where the 3 TPS wires separate from the harness, (brown/white - grey/white - grey/red), the 2 highlighted in red (red arrows in picture) were swapped thus giving entirely bad readings on every aspect. About 1.5 years ago, the wiring harness for all essential sensors, injectors, etc. received harness extensions per need for a 5.4 4v swapped motor; well human error occured then.

So when I added the new 93' style sensor; while those were crimped to the proper wire intention, the issue was located 3 feet at the other side of the extension near the passenger valve cover.

@Mustang5L5, your last post to me regarding the wiring harness for both the 93' TPS and the 99-04' TPS made me go back and double check prior work which I assumed was good and figuring it we've made it this far in the swap and addition of parts. So kudos to you brotha.

Anyways. Yep - well here are some photos. Don't mind how dirty she is, its been sitting.

 
Reactions: Mustang5L5

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,249
17,934
224
Massachusetts
May 25, 2023
#12
  • May 25, 2023
  • #12
Glad you go it.
 
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