ever heard of sarcasm??Word_Life said:You're missing the whole point 300bhp/ton, it has to be done with a 4.6L block.
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=515518300bhp/ton said:ever hear blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Word_Life said:I'm a complete spanner and have no idea
Yeah, well it ain't hard to get to the Moon either, all it takes is money!Word_Life said:read. it's not hard to get 500RWHP, you just need the money.
what do you think the 5.0 is? I mean you CAN NOT bolt on 5.4L heads to a pushrod 302.300bhp/ton said:None of them are 4.6's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^ course you didn't.300bhp/ton said:And if you check back I never siad it wasn't possible, I indicated it wasn't feasable. A subtle but vital distinction.
300bhp/ton said:The 4.6 ain't gonna do it by a long shot.
Yeah, but by that logic the new LS7 Z06 engine is the same as my Ls1 in my Z28?Word_Life said:what do you think the 5.0 is? I mean you CAN NOT bolt on 5.4L heads to a pushrod 302.
Here, I'll make a little clearer for you should I:Word_Life said:^ course you didn't.
300bhp/ton said:As a technical achievement, yes a 4.6 could be built to produce 500bhp n/a. It would however not be streetable (even in the most remote sense of the word), in fact it might not even be trackable (if that's word??). And it certainly would not be reliable.
next time I see Boss330, I'll be sure to mention to him how EASY it would be for me to get 550rwhp out of a 5.4 if I was spending the money he was.Word_Life said:http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=515518
read. it's not hard to get 500RWHP, you just need the money.
Randy Haywood (548/439 STD*) 5.4L, Ported '00R's/Cams/Sheetmetal Intake/Carb/RG. N/A HP Champion.
Boss 330 (520/440 STD*) 5.4L, Ported '00R's/Cams/PSR/RG.
Mike T. @ Modular Performance (510 STD*) 5.0L, Ported FR500/PSR/Cams/RG.
Joe Hutchins SHM 5.2/5.3L (475) Ported B head/Cams/Kinsler IR intake/RG.
Shawn Johnson (454 STD*) 5.0L, Ported C Heads/Mod Perf Cams/Custom Intake/Carbureted/RG.
well for starters, the LS7 is a different block to a LS1.hotmustang331 said:300, this is about if its possable to get 500HP out of an 03 GT. Ok, an 03 GT has a 4.6 (he wants to stay mod obviously)...you CAN MAKE A 4.6 INTO A 324CID MOTOR AND PUT 4V HEADS AND ALL THE WORKS ONTO IT.
And about the LS7 thing...its the same. Someone asks, " IS IT POSSABLE TO GET 500HP OUT OF MY LS1, WHAT DO I DO?" A REAL answer could be to bore and stroke the LS1 into a 427CID monster and throw on HUGE heads and a big cam....ITS STILL AN LS1! The factroy has to call the LS7 something different...it cant call it an LS1 if it changes it too much, but its the same base design and it can be done by anyone.
yeah, but a 4.6 is a 4.6 and a 5.4 is a 5.4, a 4.6 is NEVER a 5.4hotmustang331 said:SO WORD_LIFE's point still stands...Now the 5.4 IS a different block design so I couldnt really count them....its funny lol, just what I said it would take to get 500RWHP (ported 00 cobra Rs and big cams ect) is EXACTLY what it took to get there...the FR500s are also GREAT heads but still dont hold a light to the Rs...nor do the 5.4 navi heads. SO a 4.6L based block can make 500HP, just need ported FR500 heads, big cams, 11-1 CR, and every bolton....it WOULD be streetable also and you could pull the timing and make it run 91. It would make 500HP, but probably not 500RWHP.
Bottom line, buy a forged SB and slap a novi 2000 on it....much easier.
yeah, but I said 500bhp was near impossible from a 4.6, NOT a 4.6 style block. At a high specific output the 5.4 will get you a lot closer than a 4.6, but not everyone has been saying this.hotmustang331 said:I know the LS7 is different...just as the aluminum block 4.6 is different from the GTs cast iron block and the 03 cobras cast iron block is different from the GT cast iron block...does that make it not the same basic engine? My point is that the LS7 is essentially the same motor as the LS1...just BEFFED WAY UP. Just as the 03 Cobras iron block is a beefed up version of the GT block. Its still a 4.6 style block, just as the LS7 is generaly based on the LS1s (346CID) motor.
I never said a 4.6 was the same as a 5.4 ..I said they were different so i couldnt count them.
300bhp/ton said:ever heard of sarcasm??
But, that aside I'll stand by my claim. A BBF would likely be the cheepest and easiet way to get 500bhp n/a in a Mustang. The 4.6 ain't gonna do it by a long shot.
Even a full out race engine will struggle, the 5.0 Cammer setup for Trans Am racing only manages just over 600bhp but that's an engine without any auxilary devices (air con, exhaust, possible even power steering).
It also is designed only to be kept in the high rpm range and will have almost no bottom end. Is running racing fuel (not sure of the octane, but I guess 114 or so), and the engine is probably only designed to run for a 1000 miles or so between rebuilds.
As a technical achievement, yes a 4.6 could be built to produce 500bhp n/a. It would however not be streetable (even in the most remote sense of the word), in fact it might not even be trackable (if that's word??). And it certainly would not be reliable.
A 4v n/a unit I can see making 75-80bhp/litre and still be streetable. Which is about where the 5.0 Cammer falls in from Ford Racing.
On a 4.6 that would be 4.6 x 75 = 345, 4.6 x 80 = 368bhp.
Given time and a lot of money, a 'more modern' engine should be able to produce around 100bhp/litre, but although this would give you good top end BHP you would loose out in low end grunt.
You simply can not have both, hence engines like the BMW M3 unit, TVR 6 cylinder engines and Ferrari V8's, they all produce around 100bhp/litre but have a much lower torque in the low rpms.
Remember hp = torque x rpms / 5252
So to increase hp you need to:
a) increase toque at the same rpm (larger displacment can do this, either in capacity or FI)
b)move the PEAK torque higher in the rpms although the actual number remains
c)a combination of both
So you could have an engine produce LESS torque but at a HIGHER rpm and it will produce more power. Than an engine producing MORE torque at a LOWER rpm.
The modular engines, only have 'acceptable' specific output, combine this with a comparitivly small displacement. Means you will always be compromised in output.
The easies way to get more power is to increase the engine capacity, this is done via FI, as all FI does is fit more air into the same space.
i.e. Larger capcity for the same displacement.
All things being equal, if you have 1 atmosphere of boost above standard atomspheric pressure (commonly recognised as 14psi or 1bar), your engine know has double the capacity as it know is able to hold twice the amount of air, although it's physical dimensions (displacment) as not changed.
A 4.6 running 1 bar of boost, would be the same as running a 9.2 litre n/a engine, all things being equal. Or course all things are not equal and there are plent of limiting factors.
But none the less, a STOCK 4.6 produces 260bhp, if you simply added 14psi of boost (with an intercooler) it would affectivly double the HP to just over 500bhp.
Kilgore Trout said:Bumping old ass threads make the Baby Jeebus cry..