65' brake question #1-PB

dennis112 · Jan 5, 2006

I wish to install both a power brake booster and a dual master cylinder on my 4 SPEED stang. As I understand it, common kits are for automatic trannys only.

I believed this until I saw a common 6 cylinder/3 speed at Carlisle that had both--and the master cylinder WASN'T a mini plastic affair. It looked stock and I was impressed. Wish I had taken a picture. Looked for owner to get info, but he was nowhere to be found. . . .

Anyhow, has anyone installed PB with a dual mastercylinder on a stick shift 65/66?

How can I do it? (I have a stock 65/66 PB assembly with pivot bracket available for parts if needed.)

347Fastback · Jan 5, 2006

You can use a SVO booster and master cylinder to fit in the stock location. Contact mustang steve at his site for more info on the actual install.
http://www.mustangsteve.com/

nmk_61802 · Jan 5, 2006

To use Steve's kit though you would have to switch to a cable clutch as the booster would cover the clutch rod hole. Off the top of my head I do not know of a kit made where you could use the original cluth linkage. I'm sure they are probably made I just want to chime in on Steve's kit, although good, it will not allow the use of the original clutch linkage. Also I believe the SVO mater/ booster combo is for a disc/disc car, for what it's worth.

jmenke · Jan 5, 2006

NPD is carrying a booster with dual bowls for the early stangs that fits a manual car. MFG by ABS and I believe marketed by Scott Drake.
I just installed one on my '66 with hydraulic clutch and 4 wheel discs.
I never thought I would be able to add boosted brakes with my hydraulic clutch, which takes up much more room than the original rod for the clutch did. I used to have a Lincoln Mark VII monster master cylinder on the car, in manual (non-boosted) application. This power assisted assy is great. Car stops much easier now, and I actually have to let up a bit when I am stopping now.

The kit raises the master away from the hole in the firewall that the clutch bar runs through. It is roughly a 7" single diaphragm booster.
Some considerations:
1) if you have a convertable, the round chassis stiffening bar may interfere with the master. Note that on my convertible, I have replaced the original items with a Maier Racing part that incorporates a export brace etc to get aroung my fuel injected intake
2) in some cars, you may have to dent the driver shock tower a bit to allow the master cylinder to clear. I didn't have this issue and have about 1/4" clearance even with the additional stiffening metal I added behind the master cylinder at fire wall due to the hydraulic clutch needs
3) you may have to file the master cylinder rod a bit where the brake light switch mounts to get the brake light switch to work correctly. No problem with mine.
4) the NPD literature indicates that you need to purchase a boot that mounts to the brake rod and seals at the firewall. My kit had one, so I have to return the boot I purchased for about $40.
5) you will have to fab new brake lines from your distribution block to master.
6) Master Power Brakes suggests that you have about 18 psi vacuum at idle. I am only pulling 12 psi with my cam/set-up. I don't have any issues with stopping at this vacuum level.
6) kind of expensive at about $350. At this point in my life, I'd rather have a safe car. Money is really not an issue.

I recommend this part. One of the best mods to date on my car, and I have a lot of them...

Jim

dennis112 · Jan 5, 2006

jmenke said:
NPD is carrying a booster with dual bowls for the early stangs that fits a manual car. MFG by ABS and I believe marketed by Scott Drake.
I just installed one on my '66 with hydraulic clutch and 4 wheel discs.
I never thought I would be able to add boosted brakes with my hydraulic clutch, which takes up much more room than the original rod for the clutch did. I used to have a Lincoln Mark VII monster master cylinder on the car, in manual (non-boosted) application. This power assisted assy is great. Car stops much easier now, and I actually have to let up a bit when I am stopping now.

The kit raises the master away from the hole in the firewall that the clutch bar runs through. It is roughly a 7" single diaphragm booster.
Some considerations:
1) if you have a convertable, the round chassis stiffening bar may interfere with the master. Note that on my convertible, I have replaced the original items with a Maier Racing part that incorporates a export brace etc to get aroung my fuel injected intake
2) in some cars, you may have to dent the driver shock tower a bit to allow the master cylinder to clear. I didn't have this issue and have about 1/4" clearance even with the additional stiffening metal I added behind the master cylinder at fire wall due to the hydraulic clutch needs
3) you may have to file the master cylinder rod a bit where the brake light switch mounts to get the brake light switch to work correctly. No problem with mine.
4) the NPD literature indicates that you need to purchase a boot that mounts to the brake rod and seals at the firewall. My kit had one, so I have to return the boot I purchased for about $40.
5) you will have to fab new brake lines from your distribution block to master.
6) Master Power Brakes suggests that you have about 18 psi vacuum at idle. I am only pulling 12 psi with my cam/set-up. I don't have any issues with stopping at this vacuum level.
6) kind of expensive at about $350. At this point in my life, I'd rather have a safe car. Money is really not an issue.

I recommend this part. One of the best mods to date on my car, and I have a lot of them...

Jim

Thanks Jim for your real world experiences--I will certainly look at that kit.

The only thing from you post that bothered me, was that you used a hydralic setup. I want to maintain my stock Z-bar. Anyways, I'll check out the NPD system first as it does sound promising.

Again, Jim, Thanks.

Any other ideas folks?

SoCalCruising · Jan 5, 2006

The Scott Drake system was designed for the stock manual clutch linkage. If there was going to be a problem, it would have been with his hydraulic setup. I have also just completed the Scott Drake PB with 4-wheel discs, but using a cable clutch. The cable clutch requires a different model of PB - the automatic tranny version. But, don't let me confuse you, the manual tranny PB was designed to clear your standard mech. clutch linkage. I saw one at M-Detail (where I bought mine) while I was there - it was for another customer. I drove the owner's car which has the PB with stock GT brakes (front discs, rear drums) and it performed well.

I'm not confident about having enough vacuum, so I plumbed in a vac cannister to make sure I have enough. The car should be on the road in the next month, or so, after I fix a few nagging problems with assorted doodads and thingamajigs. The usual suspects.

dennis112 · Jan 5, 2006

Thanks for the additional info. I just realized that I had another complication with doing this swap. My car has a 351w, which is a little taller and a little wider than a 289.

Do you think I'll have a booster-to-valve cover interference problem with the Scott Drake combo?

SoCalCruising · Jan 9, 2006

Oops. I didn't notice the Windsor. I can look at mine a guess, or you can call a Scott Drake dealer(s) and see what they say. Also, check Mustangsteve.com as he has a PB setup that fits 351 Windsors.

65' brake question #1-PB

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