Stang8URMPRT
Active Member
v8only said:
Wasn't talkin' about you.. Read the post before mine... Daggar tryin' to show off.
I don't have anything against you man... I have no reason to.86 Heads vs. E7TE
- Thread starter Zenix
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Wasn't talkin' about you.. Read the post before mine... Daggar tryin' to show off.
I don't have anything against you man... I have no reason to.ooooooooook, my question turned into a flame war....But, alas... I have another question. If you get SOME/POSSIBLE piston to valve clearence issues with only E7's. What other options do I have for heads? I really don't want to spend more than like 400 dollars. Thanks for all the non-flame input that actually helped with my question though! =]
Stang8URMPRT said:Wasn't talkin' about you.. Read the post before mine... Daggar tryin' to show off.
Yeah... actually this sort of thing is pretty uncharacteristic of me. I just figured I'd bitten my tongue long enough. Next time I'm in Florida, lets go out and have a beer Stang8URMPRT.
Zenix - Sorry for taking part in wrecking your thread man. Good luck with your motor.
Stormwalker
Not a New Member
This is why I don't post here often. This thread is ridiculous. Notice my join date is Nov 03, yet my post count is like 20. These tech forums are a joke, if you are giving advice, then be sure what you are talking about, if you want to give an example about what happened to a friend's car, fine, but be open to the possibility that you don't know the full story of what happened or why.
It looks like Zenix, the original poster, has posted on the local forum now, which is good because he will get good advice, without idiots bantering back and forth comparing house size and income level. Once in a while I post here to bounce ideas off of people, but it is pretty rare. I hope this forum improves, I know there is some knowledgeable people here, but they unfortunately are lost in a sea of misinformation. Until then, this is the last place I will come to for quality technical advice or opinions.
It looks like Zenix, the original poster, has posted on the local forum now, which is good because he will get good advice, without idiots bantering back and forth comparing house size and income level. Once in a while I post here to bounce ideas off of people, but it is pretty rare. I hope this forum improves, I know there is some knowledgeable people here, but they unfortunately are lost in a sea of misinformation. Until then, this is the last place I will come to for quality technical advice or opinions.
Scones
Member
I'm very impressed with my times, they are real and I have most of them on tape. The day at the track I ran the 13.2 I had taken out all the seats with the exception of the driver's seat obviously but I've got that car very gutted. My next track trip I'm gonna bring my buddy with his digital video cam and hopefully catch a 12second pass with it...
Anyone is welcome to come to the track or meet me on the street and can see first hand that this car is legit...
Anyone is welcome to come to the track or meet me on the street and can see first hand that this car is legit...
Nutzy19 said:
Uhh... Excuse me...
Ok tell you what.You, or anyone else on here, who happens to be closer by and wants PROOF!!!!!!!!! that Scones car IS running E6s, are welcome anytime do drive up to St Thomas Dragway and we can set a date before hand. Scones car HAS run a 13.2 @ 101 MPH and a best MPH of 102.. with the untouched E6s and stock shortblock. And YES ported stock headers. 1 5/8" headers on an internally stock motor wether E6 or E7 heads is OVERKILL, and you'll lose power. Micheal Yount verified this on a motor in his Volvo, that has alum GT 40 heads and a MILD custom grind cam, etc. that going from stock headers to Motorsport 1 5/8" didnt give him a thing. If you look inside the stock headers there are huge gobs of weld inside right where they bolt to the head. He ground out the welds.. BFD???? Stock headers are good to about 280 HP.
I am guessing my your stupid remark about "his friends cars" you're doubting the 12.30s from my LX,a nd the GNs times too..??? Again, if you are willing to make the drive i'd be glad to bring my car out and run the thing just for you
OH.. The GN would be a joke.. if you arent running low 11s, you'd better bring more than you have, if you're going to call him a liar.When its all done you are welcome to fully inspect the cars till your hearts content. BTW my LX went 13.11 @ 102 MPH as well, stock motor intake to pan, stock CATS, nothing after, 3.73s, slicks, skinnies and the little tweaking / $h!t...
ANYONE with half a brain and DRIVING skills, can toss in a gear, uncap the stock cat back, lighten the car up some [keep in mind Scones GT is around 3000 LBs with him], bump the timing, add pulleys, K&N, bolt on slicks and skinnies and go at LEAST 13.50. If you can't [or in your your case couldn't] it's your own fault.
Get with it, people were doing this with stock Mustangs, even the 86s, years and years ago.... this isnt rocket science, BUT you do have to know how to drive, and not be afraid to break things.
I dont know why this is so unbelievable, there are guys on this site, 25thmustang, ERnotch, Axeman, and a few others who have cracked the high 12s on untouched stock motors.
Unreal.....
jackchan
New Member
if your on a budget the 86 heads arent all that bad! There are many other places to improve first........
and for the record the 86 intake is identical to the 87-93 intake upper and lower at 55mm.......the difference for the flow capacity is the 58mm throttle body on the 86 as opposed to the 60 mm throttle body on the 87-93! which brings your flow capacity down to 541cfm compared to 580cfm on the 87-93 stock intakes. just for the record in 93 the cobras flow went to 638cfm flow capacity but it also had a 65mm throttle body.
the cam on 85-87 were identical
opening 17-degress BTDC intake 67- degrees BBBC
closing 69-degrees ABDC intake 19-degress ATDC
Duration 266-degrees intake and also 266-degress exhaust
over lap was 36-degrees
Lobe/Valve lift .278-in./.444-in. intake and .278-in./.444-in. exhaust
Part Number E5ZE-6250-AA
the cams from 88-89 and 90-93 were the same.
86 pistons were part number #E6ZE-6110-BA Forged Aluminum
and the 1986 versions are flattops with no valve releifs
the 87 thru 92 pistons were part number #E7ZA-6110-CA and they were forged aluminum with two sets of valve reliefs in their domes.
the head casting number on 86 E6SE was also used on NON HO V8s in 1986 thru 1991 as well. SO that junkyard motor you guys pick up thats non Ho could have the 86 heads on em.
Now.........with all that said:
you can increase you power output in may ways.....yes I do have to agree the 58mm throttle body is a bottle neck. And a 60 mm throttle body would be much better......The heads arent that big a problem, as I run a pair myself on my stock POS GT.
Bottem line is it all depends on what you want to do with the car, how much money you have to invest etc etc...
good luck
Jack
and for the record the 86 intake is identical to the 87-93 intake upper and lower at 55mm.......the difference for the flow capacity is the 58mm throttle body on the 86 as opposed to the 60 mm throttle body on the 87-93! which brings your flow capacity down to 541cfm compared to 580cfm on the 87-93 stock intakes. just for the record in 93 the cobras flow went to 638cfm flow capacity but it also had a 65mm throttle body.
the cam on 85-87 were identical
opening 17-degress BTDC intake 67- degrees BBBC
closing 69-degrees ABDC intake 19-degress ATDC
Duration 266-degrees intake and also 266-degress exhaust
over lap was 36-degrees
Lobe/Valve lift .278-in./.444-in. intake and .278-in./.444-in. exhaust
Part Number E5ZE-6250-AA
the cams from 88-89 and 90-93 were the same.
86 pistons were part number #E6ZE-6110-BA Forged Aluminum
and the 1986 versions are flattops with no valve releifs
the 87 thru 92 pistons were part number #E7ZA-6110-CA and they were forged aluminum with two sets of valve reliefs in their domes.
the head casting number on 86 E6SE was also used on NON HO V8s in 1986 thru 1991 as well. SO that junkyard motor you guys pick up thats non Ho could have the 86 heads on em.
Now.........with all that said:
you can increase you power output in may ways.....yes I do have to agree the 58mm throttle body is a bottle neck. And a 60 mm throttle body would be much better......The heads arent that big a problem, as I run a pair myself on my stock POS GT.
Bottem line is it all depends on what you want to do with the car, how much money you have to invest etc etc...
good luck
Jack
Stang8URMPRT
Active Member
Stormwalker said:
If you don't like it, don't come here. No reason to talk smack about it. I learned way more stuff on here than I have learned on TCS, like how to do all of my engine upgrades. I would not even have the heads and intake I do without Stangnet, because I would have never heard of them. More people is more fights. As a matter of fact, TCS is more of a "mess around" car site than a technical site, nothing wrong with that. There are fights on TCS all the time, What the logo? TCS WE KNOW DRAMA, so please don't even come here with that B.S. that Stangnet sucks because you are biased towards a local site.
I agree, I really like Stangnet and did alot of my reading here as well, learned a lot.
It's when the 2 or 3 people in this thread that decided that they'd make a bunch ignorant comments about something that they have no clue about [Scones car, my car, etc] and are dead wrong becomes very aggrivating.
To the original poster... The fact remains, yeah, you are limited in options, with the 86 motors due to the flat top pistons, and then the fact that the E6s aren't "quite" as good as the e7 head, however the 86s are not much different from the 87 88 Speed Density cars performance wise. The same tweaks work on the 86s. And an 86 GT starts off being about the same weight as a plain hatch 87 88 LX wheras an 87 88 GT will tend to be a bit heavier. If you add the 60 mm T body and upper [2mm larger runnrs] from the 87 - newer H.O.s all you are left with that is different are the E6 heads peformance wise, but having a tad more compression on the 86 motor. Why alot of 86s seem so much slower stock, is tons of them had 2.73s.
In the end of it all I bet you'd be lucky to find 15 flywheel HP with a set of used untouched E7s over the E6s once you've already swapped the upper intake and T body over to the newer/better stuff.. [the E7 heads alone were not worth 25 HP by themselves] so, a tenth or two is what you'd gain, from an E7 swap.
So then back to the "it's not possible" BS.. if there are guys running bottom 13s and 12.90s, even 12.80s @ 103 - 104 MPH in E7 headed stock motor cars, there's no reason to believe an 86 GT ~ 3000 LBs w/ driver on ET Streets won't knock off 13.20s @ 101 MPH if driven and hooking hard.
Worry about the heads when you get really serious, you should be able to get it into the mid 13s fairly easy without serious cash if you do it right.
It's when the 2 or 3 people in this thread that decided that they'd make a bunch ignorant comments about something that they have no clue about [Scones car, my car, etc] and are dead wrong becomes very aggrivating.
To the original poster... The fact remains, yeah, you are limited in options, with the 86 motors due to the flat top pistons, and then the fact that the E6s aren't "quite" as good as the e7 head, however the 86s are not much different from the 87 88 Speed Density cars performance wise. The same tweaks work on the 86s. And an 86 GT starts off being about the same weight as a plain hatch 87 88 LX wheras an 87 88 GT will tend to be a bit heavier. If you add the 60 mm T body and upper [2mm larger runnrs] from the 87 - newer H.O.s all you are left with that is different are the E6 heads peformance wise, but having a tad more compression on the 86 motor. Why alot of 86s seem so much slower stock, is tons of them had 2.73s.
In the end of it all I bet you'd be lucky to find 15 flywheel HP with a set of used untouched E7s over the E6s once you've already swapped the upper intake and T body over to the newer/better stuff.. [the E7 heads alone were not worth 25 HP by themselves] so, a tenth or two is what you'd gain, from an E7 swap.
So then back to the "it's not possible" BS.. if there are guys running bottom 13s and 12.90s, even 12.80s @ 103 - 104 MPH in E7 headed stock motor cars, there's no reason to believe an 86 GT ~ 3000 LBs w/ driver on ET Streets won't knock off 13.20s @ 101 MPH if driven and hooking hard.
Worry about the heads when you get really serious, you should be able to get it into the mid 13s fairly easy without serious cash if you do it right.
jackchan
New Member
intakes are the same, thottle bodies are different by 2 mm.....not really that much! Gears, weight, exhaust etc...and driving style are the big difference
it would be hard for me to believe a stock 86 wouldnt run low 14's! But then again thats just my opinon. I've been working on Mustangs since 1993, "BONE STOCK" is a big set of letters........which could mean a ton of things from "i run without my spare/jack" to "It has gears and cheater tires but everything else is stock" lol
go figure!
Jack
bryanrevans
New Member
86 upper is slightly more restrictive than 87-93.crossover entry tube where egrspacer matches up to upper is 73mm on 86 its aprox 70mm????
Lower intakes are the same, Uppers are different. Hold an 86 to an 87-93 side by side and you'll see 
jackchan
New Member
could be, but its hard to believe that Ford would cast two different aluminum intakes from 86 to 87........but sometimes I guess it could happen. I've never actually held the two side by side so I really can't comment any further.
jackchan said:could be, but its hard to believe that Ford would cast two different aluminum intakes from 86 to 87........but sometimes I guess it could happen. I've never actually held the two side by side so I really can't comment any further.
Well they did cast two different kinds of heads.....
Don't mean to bud in on anyone's argument, but in this one case I'd like to add something. And not really to disagree, but just for informational purposes.v8only said:
A guy I know used 86 heads on his 93 coupe with a stock longblock. The car was extremely lightened(to some 2600 lbs.) and had additional parts up top, like intake, etc. as well as slicks. The heads were ported to the point we thought they'd fail about as soon as coolant was added.
In the end, this car ran an 11.98 @ 109mph. I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it myself. The point is, it's not all about the heads, and E6 heads aren't that bad when compared to E7 heads, and I don't prefer either. Neither is good IMHO because neither can flow well enough to support alot of hp. This basically requires a cars weight to be dramatically lowered, which can cause serious driving impairment on the streets.
As for building an 86 engine, my personal feeling is to start from scratch with the block of your choice and build what's suitable for your needs/desire. But in so doing, don't bother with the 86 engine itself because it needs too many changes to be what the 5.0HO can be. A slew of aftermarket heads and intakes are better, and the pistons need replacement(or other revision) for nearly any aftermarket head to be used. If you're looking for more power, the camshaft is a great part to begin a build. Most aftermarket versions simply won't allow for the 86 pistons with any version cylinder head. That's just me.
Scones
Member
There's a few guys running the twisted wedge heads on 86s with aftermarket cams...because of the design of the heads you get a lot more piston to valve clearance...if you do go to a big aftermarket cam you will either have to switch to Mass Air (yuck IMO) or reprogram your computer.
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