88 T Bird help

[ford_thoroughbred]

questions about the 88 tbird 5.0.is the short block the same as the ho. will mustang headers fit? been looking for answers but there not very specific so there not too helpful. so if somebody knows a good bit help me out... i know top end is a different set up but are pistons the same?

 

[Blown88GT]

If you can identify the engine as HO or non-HO, that would help. A difference between the two is the firing order.
5.0: 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
5.0 HO: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

 

[ford_thoroughbred]

If you can identify the engine as HO or non-HO, that would help. A difference between the two is the firing order.
5.0: 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
5.0 HO: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

its not ho nothing aftermarket ont this car its all original... im going to the maf setup and all but didnt know if the pistons were the same. i know it has different heads, cam , intake and stuff already... i wanted to put the gt40p heads once i started building but cant find headers the gt40p in a thunderbird

 

[Gearbanger 101]

The '88 T-Bird is a non roller, non HO 5.0L engine and they made about 150hp in stock trim. The Mustang headers will physically fit, but to be quite honest aren't going to do much for performance considering how restrictive the engine components and the rest of the exhaust system is.

If you really must modify this car, your best and cheapest bet is to just find yourself wrecked '87-'93 Mustang and do a strait engine, computer wiring harness swap. It'll be a lot of work, but having a complete donor car at your disposal will save you all kinds of headaches. An HO engine swap alone is good for about 75hp over what you're making now.

If you must absolutely have GT40 gear on the engine, you can pick yourself up a complete '96 to early-'97 Ford Explorer engine up for anywhere from $300-$1,000 depending on location. It's got the standard GT40 heads on it, which will accept the stock exhaust components as well as an equivalent Cobra type intake. Swap out to the HO cam and upgrade your valve springs and you'll tack on another 30hp over a stock HO roller. You'll still need the Mustang wiring harness and computer though....as well as numerous exhaust improvements to let it breath.

 

[ford_thoroughbred]

The '88 T-Bird is a non roller, non HO 5.0L engine and they made about 150hp in stock trim. The Mustang headers will physically fit, but to be quite honest aren't going to do much for performance considering how restrictive the engine components and the rest of the exhaust system is.

If you really must modify this car, your best and cheapest bet is to just find yourself wrecked '87-'93 Mustang and do a strait engine, computer wiring harness swap. It'll be a lot of work, but having a complete donor car at your disposal will save you all kinds of headaches. An HO engine swap alone is good for about 75hp over what you're making now.

If you must absolutely have GT40 gear on the engine, you can pick yourself up a complete '96 to early-'97 Ford Explorer engine up for anywhere from $300-$1,000 depending on location. It's got the standard GT40 heads on it, which will accept the stock exhaust components as well as an equivalent Cobra type intake. Swap out to the HO cam and upgrade your valve springs and you'll tack on another 30hp over a stock HO roller. You'll still need the Mustang wiring harness and computer though....as well as numerous exhaust improvements to let it breath.

the harness swap would be a waste of money due to all i have to do is add basically 5 wires to the original harness and swap ecu's... from what i've been reading its a roller but different cam, heads, and intake from other forums..... i found a tfs stage 1 cam for 100 i plan on getting but im kinda questioniing how far do i want to go with it due to it has 232xxx miles on it

 

[Gearbanger 101]

There may only be a couple of additional wires, but the pin connectors for the T-Bird ECU are all in the wrong place. You'll be hours just mixing and matching trying to move them around to work with the Mustang ECU. On top of all that, the pistons are different, the heads are different, the cam is different, the intake is different, the sensors are in different locations, etc, etc I’m almost 100% certain that the T-Bird is also a non roller block. The Lincoln Mark VII’s and F150’s of those years were the only other vehicles to get them besides the Mustang….and only the Lincoln utilized the roller cam profile.

Trust me....you're further ahead doing a complete donor car swap. You should be able to pick yourself up a wrecked '87-'93 Mustang for around $1,000. It's worth it just to save yourself the aggravation of chasing Gremlins and running around looking for parts.

 

[ford_thoroughbred]

There may only be a couple of additional wires, but the pin connectors for the T-Bird ECU are all in the wrong place. You'll be hours just mixing and matching trying to move them around to work with the Mustang ECU. On top of all that, the pistons are different, the heads are different, the cam is different, the intake is different, the sensors are in different locations, etc, etc I’m almost 100% certain that the T-Bird is also a non roller block. The Lincoln Mark VII’s and F150’s of those years were the only other vehicles to get them besides the Mustang….and only the Lincoln utilized the roller cam profile.

Trust me....you're further ahead doing a complete donor car swap. You should be able to pick yourself up a wrecked '87-'93 Mustang for around $1,000. It's worth it just to save yourself the aggravation of chasing Gremlins and running around looking for parts.

all i have to do is add wires to pins # 50, 9,. the power and ground for the maf run to existing pins... move pin #11 to 32 and pin# 51 to 38 and add pin#19 to existing fuel pump relay wire...... thats not very hard at all..... every sensor that the mustang has thunderbird has.... and the map turns to the bap just by unhooking the vacuum line..... thats a $30 fix for a at least $100 wiring harness.... i already have a computer and cam theres really nothing to the conversion... and unless somebody magically changed my cam and lifters from the time i changed the intake gaskets then my engine is the roller block

 

[Vinnietbird]

Let me help you clear this up. The '88 Bird is a roller engine. Not an H.O engine, but a roller engine none the less. For good power, easy to upgrades....

Install the H.O cam
Install the E-7 heads
Install the Mustang headers and H-Pipe
Have the dual exhaust installed
plug in a Mustang GT Speed Density computer and 19# injectors
The H.O intake or other aftermarket intake (Explorer intake is cheap and well worth the $125 or so to get one)

You don't need Mass Air or harness upgrades. The Sped Density computer wqill work as a plug and play with the parts I listed above.

The Thunderbird has flat top pistons. So, I'd stick with the H.O cam. The TFS-1 cam will more than likely need pistons with valve reliefs, otherwise, bent valves or other damage will probably happen. I have seen the H.O cam and GT-40 heads work with good springs installed. I had an E-303 with flat top pistons and ported E-7 heads. It worked great, although it probably was really close with piston to valve clearance. For the TFS-1 cam, you need new pistons,or cut the notches into the current pistons. There are different methods of doing that. Very time consuming, but can be done.

To just do the H.O upgrade as I stated above will really make the car a lot more fun than you might think, and the flat top pistons accept that work easily.

All of the stock Stang parts are cheap and easy to find. Install the cam and heads as I said, and an explorer intake with a 65mm t-body and have a lot of fun.

I's also, at some point, swap the gears. The Bird has a 7.5 rear with 2.73 gears. An 8.8 from a Stang is a direct swap, just install the brakes and axle shafts from the Bird onto the 8.8 and go play. If you have any questions at all, my email is [email protected] I've been through about everything with my '88 Bird and can help if you need it.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

all i have to do is add wires to pins # 50, 9,. the power and ground for the maf run to existing pins... move pin #11 to 32 and pin# 51 to 38 and add pin#19 to existing fuel pump relay wire...... thats not very hard at all..... every sensor that the mustang has thunderbird has.... and the map turns to the bap just by unhooking the vacuum line..... thats a $30 fix for a at least $100 wiring harness.... i already have a computer and cam theres really nothing to the conversion... and unless somebody magically changed my cam and lifters from the time i changed the intake gaskets then my engine is the roller block

You seem to have it all figured out then. Have at it.

...still seems like a lot of work to go through on an engine with 230K on the clock!?!

Good Luck

 

[ford_thoroughbred]

Let me help you clear this up. The '88 Bird is a roller engine. Not an H.O engine, but a roller engine none the less. For good power, easy to upgrades....

Install the H.O cam
Install the E-7 heads
Install the Mustang headers and H-Pipe
Have the dual exhaust installed
plug in a Mustang GT Speed Density computer and 19# injectors
The H.O intake or other aftermarket intake (Explorer intake is cheap and well worth the $125 or so to get one)

You don't need Mass Air or harness upgrades. The Sped Density computer wqill work as a plug and play with the parts I listed above.

The Thunderbird has flat top pistons. So, I'd stick with the H.O cam. The TFS-1 cam will more than likely need pistons with valve reliefs, otherwise, bent valves or other damage will probably happen. I have seen the H.O cam and GT-40 heads work with good springs installed. I had an E-303 with flat top pistons and ported E-7 heads. It worked great, although it probably was really close with piston to valve clearance. For the TFS-1 cam, you need new pistons,or cut the notches into the current pistons. There are different methods of doing that. Very time consuming, but can be done.

To just do the H.O upgrade as I stated above will really make the car a lot more fun than you might think, and the flat top pistons accept that work easily.

All of the stock Stang parts are cheap and easy to find. Install the cam and heads as I said, and an explorer intake with a 65mm t-body and have a lot of fun.

I's also, at some point, swap the gears. The Bird has a 7.5 rear with 2.73 gears. An 8.8 from a Stang is a direct swap, just install the brakes and axle shafts from the Bird onto the 8.8 and go play. If you have any questions at all, my email is [email protected] I've been through about everything with my '88 Bird and can help if you need it.

I was looking into getting the explorer cam with the intake and injectors. Looked at some numbers and the lifts on the cams (ho and explorer) were kind of close. The explorer cam had a little more lift than the ho.. But was considering the 40p's due to the fact that I was getting a whole top end for $200. But didn't know if I could find a set of headers that would go in the tbird for the heads

 

[Vinnietbird]

The Explorer cam really isn't for performance. It's made to get a very heavy Explorer moving, but not made for higher performance rpms.

I have a Mountaineer GT40-P engine in my bird. I am using BBK unequal length shorties and use 90 degree plug boots to clear them with no issues. You still need the Speed Density computer.

Mass Air really isn't needed until you get into the bigger than H.O cams. With an H.O cam, it's unnecessary. The H.O cam will give you a lot better performance than an Explorer am will.

If you install the "P" heads on that Thunderbird engine, MAKE SURE to do a piston to valve (PTV) check first !!! You may have a piston slap a valve...or few.

Any of the Fox Stang headers will fit the Fox Bird, BUT, remember this...IF you have a column shifter, you'll have to watch out for the exhaust hitting the shifter linkage. My Bird is a Sport model, factory floor shifter. Now it has a T-5, so, no issues for clearance at all.

Best thing to do is be patient, get a good game plan going, gather the necessary parts that WILL work, and go from there. Getting in a hurry will cause you a lot of problems.

To add to all of that, if you go bigger than an H.O cam, you'll probably need to swap the torque converter as well.

Believe it or not, the H.O upgrade for these cars can be done for super cheap. I know you want power, and have access to the "P" heads and intake, but you'd actually be better off getting the H.O cam, some E-7 heads, and even some 1.7 roller rockers. At least until you can either swap pistons, notch your pistons, or get a new short block.

Can you get the whole gt40-p engine? If so, That's a good start. Swap all the accessories,oil pan, distributor, H.O cam of TFS-1 cam (then you'd need the Mass Air with the Trick Flow cam), and other bits. Ready to Rock...except for the need of a new converter as I stated earlier, and better gears.

I got my engine from a Mountaineer. It was a service replacement engine with less than 15,xxx miles on it. Got it for $125.00. Best money spent on the Thunderbird. I put the engine on the stand, and got busy. I sold the accessories and unused parts from the engine for more than I paid for it.LOL. I had the heads ported, and also installed new Trick Flow valve springs.

If you use the "P" heads or GT40 heads from an Explorer or Mountaineer, you really need new valve springs. The factory springs are way to soft for performance use.

E-7 heads can be found on any EFI equipped 5.0 Ford pickup truck.

My email is up above, contact me if you need help.