9-Second Mustang - Help me build one.

Tripoli · Dec 17, 2006

I'm trying to decide what the future holds for my 2002 Mustang GT. I love the car, and am willing to spend a good deal of money on it, but I've reached a point where I'm not sure what I should plan on doing to it.

My (yes very lofty) goal is to be able to run a sub-10-second quarter mile and still drive the car on the street. (Keeping it completely street-legal ins't necessary, as it isn't right now anyways.) To do this, I'm willing to build an entirely new engine, and upping the displacement is something I'm looking forward to. I'll gladly use forced induction. Of course, when you're running nines, there are several NHRA rules that must be followed, so we'll need to take those into account when planning on what I need to do.

What I will not do is run nitrous or use race gas. This machine needs to run on 93 octane pump gas. (I could be talked into running race gas at the track and then returning for 93 octane on the street, I suppose, but 93 at the track would make me happier.)

Finally, I want to be able to do this in pieces, if possible. I don't want to drop a ton of money all at once if I can avoid it. I'd rather spend more overall and spread it out over a few years, slowly improving the car as I go.

I will keep this top post updated with the current plan/ideas as this thread progresses.
_________________________________________________________________________

- Increase displacement - Ditch the 4.6 - ?
- Forced Induction - Super or Turbo? - What kind/brand/model? - ?
- Upgrade drive train - Clutch/Flywheel - Transmission - Driveshaft - Rear end - ?
- Weight reduction - Racing seats, K-member (possibly custom to fit larger engine) - ?
- Slicks - Would like to keep my Bullitt break setup, so what can I fit over them?
- Roll cage - ?
- Other - ?

SaleenGT2001 · Dec 17, 2006

you are asking to do a lot! i think 15k may get you about half way there. even with a built engine and a KB 2.6 you will still need a FULL RACE car an auto trans, full suspension and a lot of weight reduction. just look at jfitz. he is running 9's with out the spray but his car is no longer street legal. a 9 sec car will not be a good street car.

you should really look to change your goal. your numbers look like you have a basically stock car. try getting a blower first. 450 hp is more than enough power for the street and what you are asking for will take double taht amount of power.

steveb24 · Dec 17, 2006

i hope u realize how fast a 9 second quarter mile is.

SaleenGT2001 · Dec 17, 2006

i dont think he does. and i dont know of many (if any) 9 sec cars taht are TRUE street cars. once i hit anything in the 10's i'm finished. i'm happy with my 12.50's at 115 right now. i think he should go to the track and see what kinda cars are putting down 9 sec passes.

i've been told MANY times that anything over 550 HP to the wheels is too much for a street car.

san~man · Dec 17, 2006

Jim Fitz has a great deal of money into the car and "only" runs 10's. Plus, he's sponsored so that helps a great deal too. I am in no way dogging Jim because his car is fantastic and is the one of the fastest out there, but I'm trying to help the thread maker understand what's involved in the process. Go on the MPH forum to get an idea of what's installed in his car and the overall time it took to tune and with labor, and the pricetag starts to become astronomical. I think 15k won't even cover the motor, but I may be wrong.

Add to that fact that his car is no longer a DD, so he may wish to revise his ultimate goal.

I also think that a car of that magnitude will only run on race gas. You simply can't run that much timing to get the necessary boost levels on pump gas.

SaleenGT2001 · Dec 17, 2006

tim is running his car on 93 octane but he said the car doesnt like it. it has 900 rwhp.

Black 2002 Mustang GT Premium Coupe - 257 RWHP - 295 Torque (pre-tune) Click for details.

this guy need to rethink his plan. someone needs to give him a ride in a 500 HP car and see if he still wants any more than that.

twogts4us · Dec 17, 2006

SaleenGT2001 said:
you are asking to do a lot! a 9 sec car will not be a good street car.

steveb24 said:
i hope u realize how fast a 9 second quarter mile is.

Short and sweet - great honest, comments.
How fast have you gone in the 1320 Tripoli? If you've only done 13's then you are taking a HUGE step going into the sub 10 range. Equate that to going from a go-cart to NARSAR at Daytona in one step...friggin huge my friend.
Build piece by piece, as you said, carefully considering the future (so, hopefully, in most cases, you won't have to do things twice)...and see where it goes. You might be totally satisfied at 12's or 11's.
9's sound like bragging rights, not a goal. Racers don't set out to build a car for a particuliar time. They build to be competitive, to win...to beat either the tree, the car in the next lane, or themselves. Now sure, when you hit 10.1X, there's nothing wrong with trying to find what will break you into the 9's - but, otherwsie, it's a lofty goal.

CENTENNIALSTANG · Dec 17, 2006

I spent 7000 on a motor then im fixing to spend 6 or 7 on a turbo setup. Then i need to get a C4 tranny and lots of suspension work. Built rearend and lots of weight reduction. Im hoping with (race gas) and 18lbs of boost i can get into the 10.5s area. I have the 2v motor also. If im close to 9s i will spray the motor but i really dont want to. All that added up will be around 20k i (think). Goodluck to you and keep us posted

twogts4us · Dec 17, 2006

CENTENNIALSTANG said:
I spent 7000 on a motor then im fixing to spend 6 or 7 on a turbo setup. Then i need to get a C4 tranny and lots of suspension work. Built rearend and lots of weight reduction. Im hoping with (race gas) and 18lbs of boost i can get into the 10.5s area. I have the 2v motor also. If im close to 9s i will spray the motor but i really dont want to. All that added up will be around 20k i (think). Goodluck to you and keep us posted

Sounds like a good plan...but is it all going into the car with this stuff?

Neon lights every where
CObra R wing
Euro lights
9-15 inch subs

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 17, 2006

If it were me and $15,000 was all I planned on working with, the closest you're going to get to 9's is going to come from yanking the whole 4.6L combo in favor of a built and sprayed 460/C6 set up. That's gonna be your cheapest way into low ET, but you still haven't addressed the rest of the car (chassis drive train, etc). Do you wanna go fast, or have the ability to do it more than once.

CENTENNIALSTANG · Dec 17, 2006

twogts4us said:
Sounds like a good plan...but is it all going into the car with this stuff?

Neon lights every where
CObra R wing
Euro lights
9-15 inch subs

Ya its going in now, my motors getting put in now. March ill take it for the Turbo, then the c4 aftert that i bet ill have it all done by mid summer.

Tripoli · Dec 17, 2006

I have to admit, so far your repsonses have been more optimistic than I would have expected, believe it or not. The $15,000 figure was just a number I picked off the top of my head. No need to limit myself to that. I'm only limited by how fast I can actually make the money.

twogts4us has me figured out the best so far. I'm not looking to go directly from a low-13 second car to a 9 second car, but I'd like to set high nines as my (albeit lofty) goal, and not waste too much money trying to get there piece by piece. I'm more than happy getting a few tenths at a time out of this.

I will be buying cams (probably VT Stage 2 NA) for my current setup in January, but after that I'm not sure where to head with the car. (No, the cams are NOT part of the 9-second plan. They're just for fun for the time being.) I wouldn't mind getting a Kenne Bell, but I don't want to invest in that if it won't fit the car in the future. I'm fully aware that my stock block won't get me anywhere near nines, which is why I figured a good place to start would be getting a new engine. I have no idea how big an engine you can squeeze into my cramped engine bay, so some advice there would be helpful.

I should also clarify that while I do intend to drive the car on the street, by the time I actually do most of these major modifications, that car will not be my daily driver. Oh, and I live in Texas, so not being street legal isn't a big deal. Hell, I'm not street legal now, and it's still my daily.

I'm willing to do weight reduction, suspension work, replace the rear end, transmission, roll cage......whatever. I just need to know what to do. Again, I have no intention of using my 4.6 2V motor for this.

A good friend of mine has an 11 second TransAm that I've had the plasure of driving a few times. It's putting down a little over 400 hp to the wheels, and I can't even claim to be intimidated by driving it. He's going to be my real competition, and beating him has always been one of my goals. Problem is he's always one step ahead, and him having an LSx block doesn't help me much. I should add that we're in the process of rebuilding that motor for forced induction right now, so I expect he'll be moving into the low 11s soon. The point being I definitely won't be satisfied with 12s, at least not in the long-run. 11s probably not, 10s sure, 9s no question.

If y'all could give me links to see what all this Jim Fitz guy (or anyone else) has done to make his car as fast as it is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the comments so far. Keep 'em coming.

I've updated the original post with a few more details. I'll continue updating it as this thread evolves.

aleborjas · Dec 17, 2006

get a tein turbo kits and 5.1 stroker kit stage III patriot heads with patriot cams, P-51 intake, 60 pound injectors, aeromotive fuel system, and look for more than 15pounds of boost good tune, racing trans (Tremec) and clutch (spec) good suspencion and so much more..........

thomas91169 · Dec 17, 2006

try for 12's before trying for 10's. bridging the gap between 14's and 12's is pretty easy, but going further from 12's and under gets to be hard. if you have to ask how to do it, youre in over your head.

basically you will need a built motor, better heads/cams, forced induction, lots of fuel+tuning, better tranny (viper spec t56 for those who still like to drive their own car), built rear end that can take the punishment. $20k+ later and you can prolly do consistent 11's or high 10's.

Tripoli · Dec 17, 2006

thomas91169 said:
try for 12's before trying for 10's. bridging the gap between 14's and 12's is pretty easy, but going further from 12's and under gets to be hard. if you have to ask how to do it, youre in over your head.

basically you will need a built motor, better heads/cams, forced induction, lots of fuel+tuning, better tranny (viper spec t56 for those who still like to drive their own car), built rear end that can take the punishment. $20k+ later and you can prolly do consistent 11's or high 10's.

Well, I should be in the 12s in a month with cams, so then it's on to 11s. I'd imagine a Kenne Bell and all related hardware would get me close, but I'm going to start breaking things before I see 11s.

A new clutch and a new/upgraded rear end are near the top of my list, but no clue what I should get.

black50 · Dec 17, 2006

BS or the Truth

My buddy came across a motor, @ a local shop, its basically a 306 with Ross pistons 11.1, ported canfield heads, with a .672 lift cam, the guy was asking 3200 without the intake with the fogger system, the motor came out of an 90 lx, the guy swears the motor ran 10.50 n/a, and 9.50 with a 150 shot.. what do you think?

Gearbanger 101 · Dec 18, 2006

black50 said:
My buddy came across a motor, @ a local shop, its basically a 306 with Ross pistons 11.1, ported canfield heads, with a .672 lift cam, the guy was asking 3200 without the intake with the fogger system, the motor came out of an 90 lx, the guy swears the motor ran 10.50 n/a, and 9.50 with a 150 shot.. what do you think?

It’s probably not BS, but you’re also probably not seeing the whole picture....the car as a whole ran those times. Not just the engine alone. Pair it up with a stock stall converter and reasonable rear end ratio in a full weight GT and it might be a total dog. In a completely stripped Fox bodied Coupe that prepped for the quarter mile, anything’s possible. Although I'm sure it's a terror at the track, I would imagine that the 306 your buddy came across wouldn't be all fun to drive on the street under normal driving conditions. It sounds like an engine that's meant to run at WOT from start to finish and it's drivability and part throttle manners would be horrible!

That being said, I still think he's going to see 9's a lot fast and cheaper with an old low tech, big displacement OHV engine than a high tech, high dollar Modular Motor.

Gauger · Dec 18, 2006

Howdy guys,

I am the T/A-owning friend that needs to be defeated. I will be helping Tripoli do the work on the car, so I will need to know this stuff as much as him. Therefore, I'll be following the thread.

thomas91169 said:
try for 12's before trying for 10's.

This is exactly what we don't want to do. We want to have a plan laid out for 10's (or better), do it once, and do it right. We know that 12's will be easy N/A and that 10's will require FI. Therefore, we need to start thinking about building a FI motor.

What we're really looking for here primarily is information about where to go with the engine. We don't know what motors will put up with the kind of power we are looking for, what motors will fit in the car, etc. After we figure out what engine we want, the rest will fall into place with a little bit of research I'm hoping.

I think that when the car starts running good times Tripoli won't expect it to be a street car. He'll expect it to be a race car that he can drive on the street to some extent. I think we can also assume that he'd going to want it to stay a stick.

We appreciate whatever help you guys can provide us. We just need a direction to go so that we can start laying out a plan.

Matt's 03 GT · Dec 18, 2006

www.modularpowerhouse.com

Drop the car off with a credit card number and they will make it run whatever you want. Tim the owner is in process of building his son (16 year old) a 9 second daily driver. You can ask his recipie and see if he will share!!

You should ask this question in those forums and see what they say. There are a number of 700 - 800 - and 900 hp + mustangs in that group. If you want to make big power and run low numbers they are the guys to ask.

Matt

LaserRed01GT · Dec 18, 2006

A 9 second draily driver is well within the realm of reality. There are tons of them out there nowadays. It just takes money. Really the 3 main things that make a car less desirable to drive on the street are big camshafts, big stall, and spools. The nice thing about power adder cars is that you don't have to run a big cam or huge stall and there are plenty of daily driven 9 second rides not using a spool.

A turbo motor would be the way to go if you want it to keep good street manners but make big power and go fast.

9-Second Mustang - Help me build one.

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SaleenGT2001

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steveb24

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san~man

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Gearbanger 101

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thomas91169

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