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90 5.0 still not right after all tests done

  • Thread starter Thread starter globaltefl
  • Start date Start date Sep 26, 2011

globaltefl

Member
Aug 2, 2009
54
0
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Grand Junction, CO
Sep 26, 2011
#1
  • Sep 26, 2011
  • #1
I have gone though the entire list of idle surge problems and checked for vacuum leaks (none found or obvious, anyway), and checked the timing.

On cold start, it dies. After a few feathers with the accel it will stay running, but runs rough. If I push down on the accelerator when it is still cold, I get backfiring in the manifold. When I do the code test with a code reader I get a code 12 and I notice (after the test, of course) that when I push on the accel. it does wind out but the tachometer will not go past about 4,000 rpms.

If I disconnect the IAC (new) and MAF, the idle smooths out, but acceleration is rough. I also notice that with the IAC in there is a noisy sucking sound in the intake and if I disconnect it it goes away. None of this makes sense to me or do I see any posts that address these events. I know there is an answer!
 

jrichker

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#2
  • Sep 26, 2011
  • #2
Backfiring out the intake is either a valve stuck open or a lean mixture or spark plug wire(s) connected to the wrong cylinder(s). Check compression on all cylinders and then look for vacuum hoses loose, cracked, or misconnected. Check the line for the vapor recirculation system – it is easy to knock loose and not see it when you connect the air pump plumbing. If the vacuum line for the EGR valve and the air pump are cross connected, some very strange things can happen. Check the mass air flow electrical connection and see that it is tight, the same goes for the fuel injection wiring harness connectors up on top of the manifold near the firewall.

Sticking valves: If a intake valve is bent, has a bad spring or is misadjusted, the engine will sometimes backfire through the intake. Use a vacuum gauge connected to any convenient spot on the intake manifold. Run the engine at 1000 RPM & look for 18-21 inches of vacuum with a steady needle. A problem intake valve will make the vacuum gauge needle sweep 5-10 inches.

Lean fuel mixture breaks out into several sub categories:
A.). Vacuum leaks
B.) Air entering the intake without passing through the MAF on Mass Air cars (89-95 models).
C.) Failure of the MAF, BAP/MAP (Baro or Manifold Air Pressure, same sensor, different name), ACT (air charge temp), or ECT (engine coolant temp). These should set a code in the computer.
D.) Leaking exhaust gases from EGR valve at WOT or EGR opening when it should not be open.
E.) Poor fuel delivery due to bad fuel pump, clogged filter or bad fuel pump wiring. Look for low pressure or fluctuating pressure. Standard injector pressure is 39 PSI at idle, with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator and capped.
F.) Clogged fuel injectors.- see the cylinder balance test below
H.) Fuel injector wiring problems causing injector not to deliver rated flow.
I.) Computer problems: (computer problems are not common like sensor problems)
J.). ROM has bad data in fuel or timing table. This should also set a code in the computer.
K.) Failure of one or more of the computer's driver transistors for the fuel injectors. No code set on this one. Use a noid test light to test the injector wiring & injector drivers,
L.) MAF calibration off or mismatched to injectors.
M.) ACT or ECT bad. Sometimes the sensors will be off calibration, but not bad enough to set a code. If they falsely read too high a temp, the engine will back off fuel delivery.

Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures. Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure

Dump the codes and see what the computer says is wrong…Codes may be present in the computer even if the Check Engine light isn’t on.


Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical





If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.



The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.


WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.

What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.

Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.


Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...

Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. Spay everything with anything you have, and you won't find the leak...


 

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89llx

5 Year Member
Aug 31, 2009
302
5
29
Sep 26, 2011
#3
  • Sep 26, 2011
  • #3
valve stuck --bent] will make a vaccume gauge bounce
 

globaltefl

Member
Aug 2, 2009
54
0
6
Grand Junction, CO
Sep 27, 2011
#4
  • Sep 27, 2011
  • #4
Thank you for all the additional things to look for. I have plenty to do, but I wanted to check on one thing concerning a stuck or bent valve. As I mentioned, it backfires out the intake only only when cold. After it warms up to operating temp it no longer does it. If a valve problem, wouldn't it continue to backfire even after it is warmed up, or could it be that after it is warmed up and the metal expands it seals enough not to backfire?
 

jrichker

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#5
  • Sep 27, 2011
  • #5
Don't guess, Diagnose! The backfire is a symptom of a lean mixture. Dump the codes and look for codes related to fuel management - O2 sensors, ACT & ECT sensors. Use a vacuum gauge to spot vacuum leaks and sticking valves. Do a cylinder balance test after you have fixed the code problems to look for cylinders that are not putting out the power that they should be putting out.
 
E

escosaint

New Member
May 6, 2011
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0
Sep 29, 2011
#6
  • Sep 29, 2011
  • #6
take a water bottle pop a little hole in top start car take iac off and spray the water around the intake manifold and plenum see if the water dissapears and u hear a small sucking noise if not then leave the iac out i have a turbo 302 i dont use a iac or another thing check the spout connector that is right next to the distributor i forgot the ohm reading but when that goes out if u have ac and power steering then it wont adjust ide i run with no spout connector again because i have a burnt chip on my computer but get back to me let me know what u find i have a few more things u can check for.
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,258
17,941
224
Massachusetts
Sep 29, 2011
#7
  • Sep 29, 2011
  • #7
Check the codes first. Don't guess when the computer has the ability to tell ypu where to look. Guessing is wasted money.
 
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