90stang5speed Rear Mounted Turbo Project Thread

Loftus · May 20, 2011

wastegate

90stang5speed said:
Thanks MadMike. I admit the inner cooler wasn't one of my best ideas. I like the idea of boxing in the turbo & venting it to the outside. I have been thinking about that for some time but havent come up with a good concept for the box or how to vent it. I also want to insulate the box to keep more of the heat away from me. The easy way would be to duct it through the floor but heat rises.

It is true you drop psi with the intercooler, But
If you reference the wastegate AFTER the intercooler you will not "loose" any boost. The more you cool the intake temps, the more efficiency, power, and safety from detonation you will have.
Good job on the boost retard and Meth kit . The meth kit can supply additional fuel under boost to make tuning easier, and I have seen 40 to 60 hp rwhp gains.

Loftus · May 20, 2011

mach

90stang5speed said:
The Reason for the scoops is for ducting the heat out on the driver’s side & ducting fresh air into the turbo inlet on the passenger side. The next couple pics will show the new routing of the turbo plumbing & the over 5 ft of plumbing plus 2 ft of inner cooler that I removed. Like Mike (madmike1157) said, with the meth injection, my air charge temp should be at or near ambient without the inner cooler. I can only hope that I can sell the thing on craigslist or something & maybe get half what I paid for it. I’m hoping with the shorter plumbing, the turbo will actually be more responsive and build boost quicker as it will have a lot less distance to travel to get to the engine.

The intercooler would be best under the front bumper with direct air flow.
There are some neat cryo set ups that would work for 1/4 mile stuff.(inside boost tube)
The boost travels @ the speed of sound.How much faster will it be?

90stang5speed · May 20, 2011

Thanks. I figure that the meth injection is going to play a huge roll in fueling this thing under boost. My import buddy with the twin turbo VR4 mixes water with his but, I think that I will be running nearly straight meth because I want it to be more for a supplemental fuel supply than just to cool the intake charge. I plan to start at 5PSI boost & slowly work my way up with the boost & the meth.

Loftus · May 20, 2011

madmike1157 said:
While I wouldn't have done it, (like that matters) STS has been putting the turbo in kits back where the muffler is for years now too. I guess it'll remain to be seen whether or not the combo works, Safe? I've aired my concerns on here too. As for legal, all I can say is you need to move to the south.

There are hundreds and thousands of rear mount kits in the world now. Look on U tube.
I like the red car above, but that turbo is bigger than my washing machine @ home! It’s cool for sure but obviously an all out racing effort.
Stock motor friendly, most single kits are full boost by 2500-to 3000 rpm.
stock exh, stock cam all work great with rear mount.
THE MOST HP per pound of boost of any blower or under hood turbo set up.
The fastest door slammer in the world just went faster by moving the turbos back on the car. All under hood systems build too much heat and have to run more boost because the heat kills . Even Hot Rods pro built "F Bomb" project said the stainless hedders will fail and crack.
Let's not confuse streetable and drivable cars with track only. But yes there are some high end road race and drift cars with this set up.

I will say that all of comments have been respectfull of the "idea".

90lxcoupe · May 20, 2011

Loftus said:
The fastest door slammer in the world just went faster by moving the turbos back on the car. All under hood systems build too much heat and have to run more boost because the heat kills. Even Hot Rods pro built "F Bomb" project said the stainless hedders will fail and crack.

What car was this? What record did it reset? You seem to be really bashing the underhood setups, which is fine, but more records have been set with the turbos under the hood. There have also been guys who switched from turbos behind the rear axle to in the engine bay and went faster

hoopty5.0 · May 20, 2011

F bomb was an early or mid '70s Camaro that Hot Rod built as a cover feature a few months ago. It was friggin' sweet.

Loftus · May 20, 2011

some different ideas

I sure enjoy your posts and am envious of your car. It's something I wanted to do but have 2 old school stangs and went the NA route.
So it is super important you wrapped the headers. Consider the turbo like a cork on the pipe, it will make the heat buildup like mad under the hood, until the wastegate opens.
The same reason under hood kits kill the stainless hedders.
Consider someday putting the stock manifolds back on the car if you run into problems with leakage ect. The car will spool faster when 1st started and be super reliable. (because it will hold the heat in the pipes for better spool)
The rear mount set up is unusual in that "normal" n/a or under hood mods don't always help.
On the rear mount the spent gases leaving the head want to go back into the motor. I always wanted to try anit-reverson style manifolds, heads or headers. I bet it would help. If you see engine temps go way up it could be one of the factors. Cam choice is also important.
Do you still have the 1.6 rockers?
If so (for fun?)(later on when you are up and running) put them on the exhaust only and see if it helps ET's. I think you would be surprised.
I will scope out the cam spec's next. Sweet elbow on the intake. Sure wished back in the day we had something like that for the f-body guys.
What a/r do you have on the exh side?

Loftus · May 20, 2011

Check this one. Listen to how fast the rear mounts spool.
I promised not to talk hp numbers but it is sick. My best work with a Mustang project.
Its all Richard @ Atomic's work.

YouTube - ‪Atomic Motorsport Concepts Twin Turbo Mustang‬&rlm;

Loftus · May 20, 2011

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/826759-twin-turbo-aix-time-trial-mustang-racecar.html

Wow. Its on this webite.
Yep its a rear mount STS kit. I guess they do work.
Its a small world. I wish I had 25k to buy it.

Loftus · May 20, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
What car was this? What record did it reset? You seem to be really bashing the underhood setups, which is fine, but more records have been set with the turbos under the hood. There have also been guys who switched from turbos behind the rear axle to in the engine bay and went faster

Wow. Calm down.
One of my best friends races with a front mount set up in ADRL and NMRA.
All I am saying is the concept works. It's not for everyone.
Not everyone has had success with it either, some didn't use the right combinations of parts either, or experiment, or give it a chance.

Loftus · May 20, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
What car was this? What record did it reset? You seem to be really bashing the underhood setups, which is fine, but more records have been set with the turbos under the hood. There have also been guys who switched from turbos behind the rear axle to in the engine bay and went faster

Mike Moran - The Journey To A 5-Second Timeslip - Hot Rod Magazine
Here is a guy that saw a benfit to moving it back a little.

Loftus · May 20, 2011

90stang5speed said:
Thanks. I figure that the meth injection is going to play a huge roll in fueling this thing under boost. My import buddy with the twin turbo VR4 mixes water with his but, I think that I will be running nearly straight meth because I want it to be more for a supplemental fuel supply than just to cool the intake charge. I plan to start at 5PSI boost & slowly work my way up with the boost & the meth.

Great way to start. Baby steps is safe. Please consider a air/fuel gauge. You will need the feed back for a good tune.
The f 303 cam has a 114 centerline, better than the b303 112 for rear mount.

I did a custom grind (GM 350) with 116 center line, really a "stock" centerline and it was full boost @ 2300 rpm . We had to run a bigger a/r so it was drivable. It was full boost before the converter was locked up and almost uncontrollable.
Yah it seems goofy to have that tight of a lobe center, but hey it's the difference in the rear mount. This would make the turbo do the work , not the motor as much.
My old 71 c motor had a 108 lobe !

90stang5speed · May 20, 2011

Thanks Loftus for all the info & video links. I do have an Innovative Technology’s LC1 wide band that I tuned with as an N/A car with the TWEECER RT. The turbo is a 76mm P trim. It has a .70 AR compressor side & a .81 AR turbine side. I’m curious as to why you say to put the 1.6 rockers back on the exhaust side. I would think that the more I open the exhaust valve, the more exhaust gasses the piston would push out of the cylinder and spool the turbo faster. I still have the 1.6's but they were the cheapest thing summit sold in a roller style & the roller tips are starting to get real sloppy. I might make a pass with them someday & then buy good ones if I like the result. I have only seen N/A guys use bigger rockers on the exhaust side not the intake so more info on that would be cool. thanks.

90lxcoupe · May 20, 2011

Loftus said:
Wow. Calm down.
One of my best friends races with a front mount set up in ADRL and NMRA.
All I am saying is the concept works. It's not for everyone.
Not everyone has had success with it either, some didn't use the right combinations of parts either, or experiment, or give it a chance.

Im plenty calm, just asking who it was. Also never said remote mounts dont work, just putting it out there that not everyone with remote mounts is successful. Mike Murrillo's outlaw 10.5 car ran better with the turbos up front

Cobra912 · May 20, 2011

that and the turbo's in Mike Murrillo's car were in the trunk not the cockpit directly behind the driver.

If you plan on running this car at the track there is no way it's gonna pass tech IMO

90stang5speed · May 21, 2011

Passing the tech inspection here is a bit of a concern. Back in KY, the 1/8 track where this all began, didn’t have a very strict tech inspection, at least not on test & tune nights. I was asked once if I had a drive shaft loop. At the time, I did not. He said, you can run tonight, you just can’t use the burn out box. I said ok and the next time I went back I had the drive shaft loop. The same guy looked under the hood, put some numbers on my windows & sent me on my way. He didn’t even ask about the loop much less look for it. The pic of the car with turbos in the trunk looks really cool. It looks like he is only separated from the turbos by a sheet metal bulkhead & he has, what I’m guessing is an air to water inner cooler right behind him. There was concern about those blowing apart posted earlier. I’m not trying to argue, I’m just hoping that if that guys setup can make it through a competition worthy tech inspection, that my scatter shield /heat extractor will also pass inspection on a test and tune night. The only real difference I see is his turbos are farther back than mine. Only one way to find out I guess. It sure would suck to get kicked off the track after building all this & have to redo it.

1bad67sbf · May 21, 2011

maybe take some pics to the track and show the tech guys. maybe they will give some advice for what they need to see in a setup like yours.

90stang5speed · May 21, 2011

Thats not a bad idea. I plan on going to the track over in Phoenix city Al for my birthday in July. Just to watch. I might take some pics with me.

jrichker · May 21, 2011

Scatter shield - Google ballistic blanket material (ballistic blanket material - Google Search) see what you find. The Kevlar blankets come in different shapes and sizes, and are flexible enough to be a liner for the scatter shield you have already fabricated.

The ballistic blankets are not cheap, but less expensive than hospitalization and funerals...

90stang5speed · May 21, 2011

Thanks for the tip. I will check that out.

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